keris bali

nechesh · 24th September 2005, 01:30 AM

You know Martin, Purwa might have a point here. I mean, why should we bother to try and determine anything about our keris when they can be anything we want them to be if we can see them from the yoni perspective. So when an unscrupulous keris dealer mahars a keris to you at $1000 and tells you it is a powerful pusaka when in fact it was made yesterday by a skilled craftman in Madura it shouldn't matter, right, because "what people say as kadutan, or pusaka, or pertimi, is not because the keris has those properties, but because people see it as such."???

Rick · 24th September 2005, 04:19 PM

I personally can't think of anything more insulting than the suggestion that I might have to use a keris to protect myself from a street dog when the act of simply bending over to pick up a rock would send it flying away like the wind .

BluErf · 24th September 2005, 07:09 PM

All parties shd take a deep breath and relax...

Anyway, I thought the sheath was most interesting. The way the 3rd eye of shiva was carved on the wrangka is something new to me, so are the longer than usual daun-daun (the curls at both ends of the wrangka). Also interesting is the 'fuller' that extends from batang into the wrangka. Any further insights into the origins of this sheath form?

Rick · 24th September 2005, 09:21 PM

Exhales...........

Hi Blu , I have seen some similar elements pictured in Jensen's Den Indonesiske Kris .
The extended fullers are Balinese and elements of the extended doan doan can also be seen in the same book as Balinese , but not exclusively so for either design element .
The bulbous wrangka seems more like a Javanese feature .

The eye of Shiva is a most unusual interpretation of this element and puzzles me too .

I'd vote for a Jawa Bali fusion most likely made in Jawa .
Only my opinion though .
YMMV

nechesh · 24th September 2005, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'd vote for a Jawa Bali fusion most likely made in Jawa .
Only my opinion though .
YMMV

Rick, are you referring to just the sheath here, or the blade as well.
This sheath seems to combine elements i've seen in early Bali Ladrang sheaths with more Javanese or Madurese styles.It also bears some resemblence to certain types of Madurese Ladrang styles. It is obviously newer than the blade and appears fairly recent in the photos. Both Hilt and Sarong seem to be a matched set, made at the same time from the same wood and made for this blade. My feeling is that it was probably recently made in Madura, though i wouldn't count out Jawa.The blade, however, is Balinese made, IMO, but it is only an opinion.

Rick · 24th September 2005, 11:14 PM

Just the sheath Nechesh , and I do agree the ukiran seems to be made ensemble but since Kai wee was referring to the sheath that is what I addressed .

Alam Shah · 25th September 2005, 04:19 AM

Interestingly, the hilt on the 4th picture shows an abstract image of a 'wayang character", side profile.

5th picture of the newer photos, the hilt shows an abstract image of a "beast". Just an observation.

24th September 2005, 04:19 PM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Flowery Insults ? I personally can't think of anything more insulting than the suggestion that I might have to use a keris to protect myself from a street dog when the act of simply bending over to pick up a rock would send it flying away like the wind .

24th September 2005, 07:09 PM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	All parties shd take a deep breath and relax... Anyway, I thought the sheath was most interesting. The way the 3rd eye of shiva was carved on the wrangka is something new to me, so are the longer than usual daun-daun (the curls at both ends of the wrangka). Also interesting is the 'fuller' that extends from batang into the wrangka. Any further insights into the origins of this sheath form? Last edited by BluErf; 25th September 2005 at 01:07 AM. Reason: Typed 'breath' wrongly.

24th September 2005, 01:30 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	You know Martin, Purwa might have a point here. I mean, why should we bother to try and determine anything about our keris when they can be anything we want them to be if we can see them from the yoni perspective. So when an unscrupulous keris dealer mahars a keris to you at $1000 and tells you it is a powerful pusaka when in fact it was made yesterday by a skilled craftman in Madura it shouldn't matter, right, because "what people say as kadutan, or pusaka, or pertimi, is not because the keris has those properties, but because people see it as such."???

24th September 2005, 09:21 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Exhales........... Hi Blu , I have seen some similar elements pictured in Jensen's Den Indonesiske Kris . The extended fullers are Balinese and elements of the extended doan doan can also be seen in the same book as Balinese , but not exclusively so for either design element . The bulbous wrangka seems more like a Javanese feature . The eye of Shiva is a most unusual interpretation of this element and puzzles me too . I'd vote for a Jawa Bali fusion most likely made in Jawa . Only my opinion though . YMMV

24th September 2005, 11:14 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Just the sheath Nechesh , and I do agree the ukiran seems to be made ensemble but since Kai wee was referring to the sheath that is what I addressed .

25th September 2005, 04:19 AM	#7
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Interestingly, the hilt on the 4th picture shows an abstract image of a 'wayang character", side profile. 5th picture of the newer photos, the hilt shows an abstract image of a "beast". Just an observation.