Miquelet Pistol, decoration and maker questions

dana_w · 13th December 2012, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello:

Working with Google's translator, "ovo gun bunda" translates into Spanish as "gun butt Egg" and the English "egg pistol butt" ....... (?)

Affectionately. Fernando K

That is the best I can up with. I am using Google's translator too. If "egg butt pistol" was an English term in common use, something would turn up. Maybe Fernando has a better Portuguese term that I can search for.

fernando · 13th December 2012, 03:10 PM

Watch out for automatic translations. The term you got for 'butt' was the brazilian vulgar term for women's butt (bunda).
The actual portuguese name for these pistols is 'pistola de coronha de ovo'; it would be 'cureña de huevo' in Spanish. But i guess that, even this butt shape originates in Spain, the term coronha de ovo is genuine portuguese, with no pracrical translation.
Therefore the only chance to find the term in the internet is in portuguese. I have found a couple pistols in auction sites but the image was gone, as the items were sold.
I will be back with further info.

fernando · 13th December 2012, 06:45 PM

Here you have them of all kinds; ignition systems of all types ... patilla variations, 'half French-half Portuguese', 'Goats foot', English type, percussion and converted to percussion. Iron and brass butt plates ... and even one with rotary barrels.
One thing in common is the egg shaped butt ... that can be pointing to either direction.
One of the details that distinguishes Portuguese pistols from Spanish is that, the butt plate in the Spanish models is limited to the butt shape whereas in the Portuguese pistols there is a rim 'folding' to the stock

Sorry for the poor pictures. The book is a bit to heavy and large for me (one handed) to handle on the scanner.

.

dana_w · 13th December 2012, 07:40 PM

Some of those butt plates really do look egg shaped. Thanks for sending me the Portuguese and Spanish names. I have had a lot better luck searching with those.

dana_w · 13th December 2012, 09:19 PM

What do you make of these pistols from Dr. Lavin's book on page 222? He discuses the stocks on page 192.

..."appears to be directly descended from an earlier Brescian shoulder stock. The use of an almost identical pistol stock in Spain would seem to support this. However, no Spanish example of this stock appears until late in the seventeenth century in Ripoll or in the eighteenth century in Castilla (Plate 87). Extremely popular, it lasted until well into the nineteenth century, when the downward curve became more pronounced (Plate 88).

fernando · 14th December 2012, 05:35 PM

We also had our share of this stock style in Portugal.
The attached pair, dated 2nd half XVIII century, fully mounted and decorated in chizeled silver, belonged to General Povoas (1773-1852). Having later belonged in the collection of Dom Fernando II, is now in the Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa ( House of Bragança).

.

dana_w · 14th December 2012, 07:11 PM

That really looks like a Ripoll style lock. Do you think / know that they were made in Portugal?

Fernando K · 14th December 2012, 07:14 PM

Hello, Fernando

I wonder what that piece is decorated, retained by a screw, located in front of the bowl (pan) and its flange (bridge)

Affectionately. Fernando K

13th December 2012, 06:45 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Here you have them of all kinds; ignition systems of all types ... patilla variations, 'half French-half Portuguese', 'Goats foot', English type, percussion and converted to percussion. Iron and brass butt plates ... and even one with rotary barrels. One thing in common is the egg shaped butt ... that can be pointing to either direction. One of the details that distinguishes Portuguese pistols from Spanish is that, the butt plate in the Spanish models is limited to the butt shape whereas in the Portuguese pistols there is a rim 'folding' to the stock Sorry for the poor pictures. The book is a bit to heavy and large for me (one handed) to handle on the scanner. . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 13th December 2012 at 09:02 PM.

13th December 2012, 09:19 PM	#5
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	What do you make of these pistols from Dr. Lavin's book on page 222? He discuses the stocks on page 192. ..."appears to be directly descended from an earlier Brescian shoulder stock. The use of an almost identical pistol stock in Spain would seem to support this. However, no Spanish example of this stock appears until late in the seventeenth century in Ripoll or in the eighteenth century in Castilla (Plate 87). Extremely popular, it lasted until well into the nineteenth century, when the downward curve became more pronounced (Plate 88). Attached Images

14th December 2012, 05:35 PM	#6
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	We also had our share of this stock style in Portugal. The attached pair, dated 2nd half XVIII century, fully mounted and decorated in chizeled silver, belonged to General Povoas (1773-1852). Having later belonged in the collection of Dom Fernando II, is now in the Ducal Palace of Vila Viçosa ( House of Bragança). . Attached Images

13th December 2012, 03:10 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Watch out for automatic translations. The term you got for 'butt' was the brazilian vulgar term for women's butt (bunda). The actual portuguese name for these pistols is 'pistola de coronha de ovo'; it would be 'cureña de huevo' in Spanish. But i guess that, even this butt shape originates in Spain, the term coronha de ovo is genuine portuguese, with no pracrical translation. Therefore the only chance to find the term in the internet is in portuguese. I have found a couple pistols in auction sites but the image was gone, as the items were sold. I will be back with further info.

13th December 2012, 07:40 PM	#4
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	Some of those butt plates really do look egg shaped. Thanks for sending me the Portuguese and Spanish names. I have had a lot better luck searching with those.

14th December 2012, 07:11 PM	#7
dana_w Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Southeast Florida, USA Posts: 437	That really looks like a Ripoll style lock. Do you think / know that they were made in Portugal?

14th December 2012, 07:14 PM	#8
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 672	Hello, Fernando I wonder what that piece is decorated, retained by a screw, located in front of the bowl (pan) and its flange (bridge) Affectionately. Fernando K