A folding butt carbine

[Fernando K]

Hello:

The working method applied to the plates is not recorded, but the "tooled". Fernando would be interesting to tell us what material they are made (? Silver, nickel, iron?)

The weapon of the post 10, a blunderbuss travel has on his shield (escutcheon) a phrase in Italian, I fail to decipher: "chi non nona Legge P. ....."

The weapon of the post 13 has an inscription on the barrel LAZZAPINA. It was amended by adding a leg to the P to become R, LAZZARINO (Lazzarino Comionazo why?)

In post 14, Photo of the key, I would like to know is that little screw on the inner side of the upper jaw. Is it to hold the screw mason?

[Miqueleter]

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello:



In post 14, Photo of the key, I would like to know is that little screw on the inner side of the upper jaw. Is it to hold the screw mason?

Good eye, Fernando K, I noticed that top jaw screw (setscrew?) on Fernando's scavezzo as well as the ones in Malta. I have never seen that before on the classic patillas. Interesting as well is the fact the scavezzos seem to be fitted with classic patilla locks on what is basically an Italian firearm. Brescian, IMHO. But then, until this thread, I never really paid any attention to scavezzos. I would see them listed quite often in Czerny's auctions. Perhaps Fernando will verify that the screw is indeed a setscrew.

[dana_w]

I have seen setscrews before on early patilla Miquelet locks. This lock has the hole, but the screw is missing. My father purchased the lock from Dr. Lavin in 1997. The Rifle Shoppe sells a cast reproduction of it, Item #614 "James Lavin's 1650's Miquelet Lock".

[Fernando K]

Hello, Migueleter

The fact that an Italian gun is mounted with a key (lock) de patilla, Spanish, Catalan-miguelete or should not mislead: this key (lock) key member of the group share the same Mediterranean and horizontal trigger system: lock a Roman. agujeta. morlacca or lock the mojacca. Even locks "to the Roman" have been built in Spain, and has influenced the lock "to the three modes" Spanish

Affectionately from Argentina, Fernando K

[Miqueleter]

Dana

I honestly never saw a setscrew in patillas I have owned, handled, or viewed in books, magazines, and on the internet. Perhaps because most images show only the outside of the lock and/or I wasn't paying attention. A quick review of Lavin and Neal revealed no such setscrew. So once again, you, Broadaxe, and fernando have brought interesting things to light. I love this forum.

Fernando K

Originally Posted by Fernando K

The fact that an Italian gun is mounted with a key (lock) de patilla, Spanish, Catalan-miguelete or should not mislead: this key (lock) key member of the group share the same Mediterranean and horizontal trigger system: lock a Roman. agujeta. morlacca or lock the mojacca. Even locks "to the Roman" have been built in Spain, and has influenced the lock "to the three modes" Spanish

Quite true. Many (most) of us know about the myriad forms and diffusion of the miquelet, however, to the uninitiated general public (and the NRA Museum), it is unknown and/or puzzling. That is why I created a Wikipedia page on the Miquelet Lock a couple of years ago (which could be better if I had decent images-they have strict image rules).

On another matter, on an earlier post I mentioned that the use of the patilla on scavezzos was "interesting". Poor choice of terms, it seems. By "interesting", not out of ignorance, but smug affirmation that often the scavezzos were fitted with patilla locks because they were considered more robust, reliable, and not fussy about flints; virtues a coach guard would want. That make sense?

[dana_w]

I could be wrong Miqueleter. I checked the hole in the top jaw of my lock, and it is not threaded. I have seen these holes before, sometimes with screws. Maybe a retaining pin was used on some early top jaw screws. Lavin references Espinar's discussion of retaining pins (Fieles / Fiel) that were used on cock and battery screws. See page 164 and 165 of The History of Spanish Firearms.

[fernando]

Maybe the purpose is different. Fieles are applied to keep a static position, whereas the screws that fix the jaw screw ought to have the ability to be screwed and unscrewed with a relative easiness. I have checked my set crew to respond to post #22 . It is in a poor condition; i will not take it off again. Its point is worn; i couldn't figure out whether it ended in an actual pin or flat shape. But it all appears that its body has a thread; at least it went out and back in with a screweing movement.

[fernando]

Hola Fernando.

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Hello:
The working method applied to the plates is not recorded, but the "tooled". Fernando would be interesting to tell us what material they are made (? Silver, nickel, iron?)...

You mean not engraved but tooled; what would be the spanish term for tooled?
The material is iron.

Originally Posted by Fernando K

The weapon of the post 10, a blunderbuss travel has on his shield (escutcheon) a phrase in Italian, I fail to decipher: "chi non nona Legge P. ....." ...

Maybe an Italian could decipher it ... although the auction house is Italin and they just called it 'inscription'. I guess it is one this popular phrases, like you also find in Spanish navajas. This one sounds like a motto, like "who doesn't have law ..."

Originally Posted by Fernando K

The weapon of the post 13 has an inscription on the barrel LAZZAPINA. It was amended by adding a leg to the P to become R, LAZZARINO (Lazzarino Comionazo why?)

I think the original intention was to inscribe the word LAZZARINA, to give prestige to the weapon with such famous name. This is a common habit. The Cominazo family was Brescian, where apparently this 'Scavezzo' was made.

Originally Posted by Fernando K

In post 14, Photo of the key, I would like to know is that little screw on the inner side of the upper jaw. Is it to hold the screw mason?

Yes, the "set screw", as i have now leaerned the term in english.

[Fernando K]

Hola. tocayo

Si se me permite, voy a escribir en castellano, para que se entienda lo que quiero expresar. La técnica no es el grabado, sino el "repujado", "repousse", en francés. Se trata de desplazar el material, sin sacado de virutas....

Fernando K

In other words, the technique is not engraving but the so called "repoussé", a French term also used in english, that defines the 'displacing' of the material without shavings removal.
This technique we call in portuguese 'repuchado'.

.