Sickle Knife, India ???

Robert · 7th December 2012, 07:59 PM

Hello Kai and thank you very much for your thoughts on this item. I hope that Timo can get his brother to send pictures of his example to post for comparison with mine. Your estimate of age is greatly appreciated but could you be a bit more exacting on when it might have been made, 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarter of the twentieth century? Again my thanks to everyone for their help on this.

Regards,
Robert

Robert · 14th December 2012, 07:59 PM

Well this showed up in the mail today so here are a few new photos. I'm not sure if they are any improvement over the originals though. The blade is slightly over 1/4 inch thick where it meets the decorative piece. This is definitely a hand forged piece complete with plenty of hammer marks up and down the blade. I agree with Kai and believe this to be a ceremonial item. Any comments and opinions on this would be very welcome.

Regards,
Robert

Billman · 18th September 2013, 07:14 PM

I have several of these, one bought with some other tools (from the Indian subcontinent), and seen several others. Mine are not to hand, but I have a couple of images of some sold in France a year or two ago, plus a few others of similar tools...

Sorry I cannot be more specific, but at least you know it is not a unique piece, and that the method of construction (a steel blade inserted into an ornamented iron stock) was common in some (unknown) region...

As three turned up in France (and I also bought one of mine there) they may be from the French speaking regions of Puducherry or Chandannagar on the eastern coast of India (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_French)

Note images 3 and 4 are from different tools (4 was sold without a handle) - the other seem to have a teak like wooden handle... (site has just changed order of images - now images 1 & 2)

manteris1 · 18th September 2013, 07:23 PM

what about this.............jimmy

Billman · 18th September 2013, 07:29 PM

Can you please add a full side on image to the above?? It may help to identify its origins... I would class this as a billhook (or pruning hook/tea hook) - the tool in question is almost certainly a harvesting sickle...

M ELEY · 18th September 2013, 11:43 PM

I am amazed at how closely this item resembles Spanish colonail pieces with some of their decoration, design, tooled handle. The decorations nearly exactly match those found on Spanish colonial swords. My Brazilian espada, discussed at length in other threads, has the odd star patterns and line designs like these. Furthermore, on many espada ancha, we see the odd hook-like protrusions like those found on these. Some of the protrusions on espada go a step futher by making them into snakes. On Billman's example, we see the Moroccan-style flyssa-type hilt on one of these pieces. This exactly matches the Brazilian cutlass patterns, as seen on this site and in museum collections. I understadn that many of these themes were borrowed and found in other cultures, but could one theorize that at the very least, we see a cross-over of cultures with these pieces? My .2 cents.

Billman · 19th September 2013, 09:14 AM

Hi, I collect billhooks - now have over 6000 from various countries and continents - one thing I have noticed is parallel development in shapes, handles, methods of construction etc. Japanese and Chinese billhooks are very similar to European ones - they have had them for at least as long as we have had in the West (at least 2000 years). Ditto those from India and Africa, in fact almost any civilisation that has had iron working in its development.

Similar parallel development can be in other basic hand tools: sickles, axes, adzes & hammers and in weapons: spears, swords, bows & arrows...

The same is probably also true in respect of ornamentation/decoration e.g. scroll work, inlay and incised decoration. I have decorated billhooks from several different countries - certain types of decoration are common in tools from widely separated areas, especially punched (or chiseled) lines, curves, whorls, stars and combinations thereof...

My best guess is that tools of this type were used by women on a daily basis. India has a tradition of decorated tools, especially sickles. These may have been part of a marriage dowry, or a gift from the groom to the bride. Judging by the degree of wear on some of the blades, they were regularly used over a long period of time. Searches of images for rice or grain harvest show mainly women working in the fields - the men undertaking the heavier tasks such as ploughing the land....

not2sharp · 14th October 2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manteris1

what about this.............jimmy

It looks like a tea knife.

n2s

Billman · 18th October 2013, 10:09 PM

Tea knives/pruning hooks tended to be quite small - blades about 6" long - but all pruning prior to the invention of the secateur c1830 was carried out using a small billhook/pruning hook, so it could be used for any sort of pruning: fruit trees, bushes, roses, berry plants - as well as for hedging and coppicing work - a true 'jack of all trades' type of tool...

spiral · 18th October 2013, 10:43 PM

Buffalo {of all types.} cow, goat, bull, sheep & ram are all hollow at the base of the horn, & have varying amounts of solid horn towards the tip, water buffalo having the greater proportion solid though compared to the other species.

Spiral

14th December 2012, 07:59 PM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Well this showed up in the mail today so here are a few new photos. I'm not sure if they are any improvement over the originals though. The blade is slightly over 1/4 inch thick where it meets the decorative piece. This is definitely a hand forged piece complete with plenty of hammer marks up and down the blade. I agree with Kai and believe this to be a ceremonial item. Any comments and opinions on this would be very welcome. Regards, Robert Attached Images

18th September 2013, 07:14 PM	#3
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	I have several of these, one bought with some other tools (from the Indian subcontinent), and seen several others. Mine are not to hand, but I have a couple of images of some sold in France a year or two ago, plus a few others of similar tools... Sorry I cannot be more specific, but at least you know it is not a unique piece, and that the method of construction (a steel blade inserted into an ornamented iron stock) was common in some (unknown) region... As three turned up in France (and I also bought one of mine there) they may be from the French speaking regions of Puducherry or Chandannagar on the eastern coast of India (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_French) Note images 3 and 4 are from different tools (4 was sold without a handle) - the other seem to have a teak like wooden handle... (site has just changed order of images - now images 1 & 2) Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 19th September 2013 at 08:56 AM.

18th September 2013, 07:23 PM	#4
manteris1 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 114	what about this.............jimmy Attached Images

18th September 2013, 11:43 PM	#6
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,158	I am amazed at how closely this item resembles Spanish colonail pieces with some of their decoration, design, tooled handle. The decorations nearly exactly match those found on Spanish colonial swords. My Brazilian espada, discussed at length in other threads, has the odd star patterns and line designs like these. Furthermore, on many espada ancha, we see the odd hook-like protrusions like those found on these. Some of the protrusions on espada go a step futher by making them into snakes. On Billman's example, we see the Moroccan-style flyssa-type hilt on one of these pieces. This exactly matches the Brazilian cutlass patterns, as seen on this site and in museum collections. I understadn that many of these themes were borrowed and found in other cultures, but could one theorize that at the very least, we see a cross-over of cultures with these pieces? My .2 cents. Last edited by M ELEY; 19th September 2013 at 12:00 AM.

19th September 2013, 09:14 AM	#7
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Hi, I collect billhooks - now have over 6000 from various countries and continents - one thing I have noticed is parallel development in shapes, handles, methods of construction etc. Japanese and Chinese billhooks are very similar to European ones - they have had them for at least as long as we have had in the West (at least 2000 years). Ditto those from India and Africa, in fact almost any civilisation that has had iron working in its development. Similar parallel development can be in other basic hand tools: sickles, axes, adzes & hammers and in weapons: spears, swords, bows & arrows... The same is probably also true in respect of ornamentation/decoration e.g. scroll work, inlay and incised decoration. I have decorated billhooks from several different countries - certain types of decoration are common in tools from widely separated areas, especially punched (or chiseled) lines, curves, whorls, stars and combinations thereof... My best guess is that tools of this type were used by women on a daily basis. India has a tradition of decorated tools, especially sickles. These may have been part of a marriage dowry, or a gift from the groom to the bride. Judging by the degree of wear on some of the blades, they were regularly used over a long period of time. Searches of images for rice or grain harvest show mainly women working in the fields - the men undertaking the heavier tasks such as ploughing the land.... Last edited by Billman; 19th September 2013 at 09:45 AM.

7th December 2012, 07:59 PM	#1
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello Kai and thank you very much for your thoughts on this item. I hope that Timo can get his brother to send pictures of his example to post for comparison with mine. Your estimate of age is greatly appreciated but could you be a bit more exacting on when it might have been made, 1st, 2nd or 3rd quarter of the twentieth century? Again my thanks to everyone for their help on this. Regards, Robert

18th September 2013, 07:29 PM	#5
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Can you please add a full side on image to the above?? It may help to identify its origins... I would class this as a billhook (or pruning hook/tea hook) - the tool in question is almost certainly a harvesting sickle...

18th October 2013, 10:09 PM	#9
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	Tea knives/pruning hooks tended to be quite small - blades about 6" long - but all pruning prior to the invention of the secateur c1830 was carried out using a small billhook/pruning hook, so it could be used for any sort of pruning: fruit trees, bushes, roses, berry plants - as well as for hedging and coppicing work - a true 'jack of all trades' type of tool...

18th October 2013, 10:43 PM	#10
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Buffalo {of all types.} cow, goat, bull, sheep & ram are all hollow at the base of the horn, & have varying amounts of solid horn towards the tip, water buffalo having the greater proportion solid though compared to the other species. Spiral