Figural !

A. G. Maisey · 28th November 2012, 10:21 PM

Sajen, I could always be wrong, but I must say that I have never seen an ivory hilt that was blackened as heavily as this one is; the pattern of this hilt is a very prevalent one for recently made hilts. My gut feeling is that you will find it to be made of some substance other than ivory, but there may be a small ring of ivory glued to the base of the hilt.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that when dealing with sellers in Indonesia things are very often not what they are presented to be. You may not have bought this directly from Indonesia, but somebody did.

Let me tell you about a silver gilt hilt that I bought many years ago in Malang.

Absolutely beautiful hilt, old style gilt, superb workmanship, and a price to match, but it was gilded and thus just about impossible to test to see if it was silver or not. Luckily there were a couple of high spots on the face where the gilt had worn off and the silver was exposed, so I took it to a jeweller in a nearby stall and had these spots tested. They tested positive as silver. I bought this beautiful hilt and paid silver price for it --- there is a big difference in price between silver objects and copper or brass objects.

It took me several years before I discovered that the exposed high spots on the face of this hilt were tiny specks of silver that had been added to the copper base of the hilt, for the express purpose of being exposed to allow a test for silver.

I've been flim-flammed many times in Indonesia --- and a few times in other places too. Its called "education".

Sajen · 28th November 2012, 10:48 PM

Dear Jean, Gustav and Alan,

thank you for respond and opinion. I agree with Alan, I am as well never have seen a such blackened ivory hilt before but all I have seen before were very worn. And agree with Gustav and Alan that it could good be possible that it is an other material as I have hoped to see.

But as you know I like to gamble by ebay.

And the price I have paid (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-BA...vip=true&rt=nc) was one which is ok for a gamble. We will see if it was winning gamble when I have received it.

Regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 28th November 2012, 11:33 PM

Yes Detlef, $100 is not much to gamble. No matter what the hilt is made from, the total object is probably worth what you paid for it. I used to buy similar objects at a similar level many years ago, its probably a good learning exercise, but its empirical learning. I'm certain that if you remain interested in keris, that sooner or later you will find that your money is better protected and your collecting experience enhanced by buying from slightly more reliable sources than ebay. Living in Europe as you do, I feel that you would find many available sources if you put in the time to look.

Sajen · 29th November 2012, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes Detlef, $100 is not much to gamble. No matter what the hilt is made from, the total object is probably worth what you paid for it. I used to buy similar objects at a similar level many years ago, its probably a good learning exercise, but its empirical learning. I'm certain that if you remain interested in keris, that sooner or later you will find that your money is better protected and your collecting experience enhanced by buying from slightly more reliable sources than ebay. Living in Europe as you do, I feel that you would find many available sources if you put in the time to look.

You're correct Alan, I have used such sources and still use them but on the other hand I've got keris & keris handles from ebay by prices I would have paid a lot more by this sources, remember this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=tajong or this: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=donoriko.

Best regards,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 30th November 2012, 12:55 AM

Yes, I guess you're right Detlef. I sometimes tend to forget that not everybody has either the same taste, nor access to the same sources that I have.

My apologies for questioning your wisdom.

David · 30th November 2012, 10:26 PM

I still gamble now and then on eBay. I would say i've "won" that gamble more than lost. This figurative hilt and keris were an eBay purchase at a superb deal. No sheath :-( , which probably kept the bidders away.

David · 30th November 2012, 10:29 PM

I should note that José added that moonstone ring on the hilt. This sliver piece was missing when i purchased it.

30th November 2012, 10:26 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I still gamble now and then on eBay. I would say i've "won" that gamble more than lost. This figurative hilt and keris were an eBay purchase at a superb deal. No sheath :-( , which probably kept the bidders away. Attached Images

28th November 2012, 10:21 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Sajen, I could always be wrong, but I must say that I have never seen an ivory hilt that was blackened as heavily as this one is; the pattern of this hilt is a very prevalent one for recently made hilts. My gut feeling is that you will find it to be made of some substance other than ivory, but there may be a small ring of ivory glued to the base of the hilt. It is an unfortunate fact of life that when dealing with sellers in Indonesia things are very often not what they are presented to be. You may not have bought this directly from Indonesia, but somebody did. Let me tell you about a silver gilt hilt that I bought many years ago in Malang. Absolutely beautiful hilt, old style gilt, superb workmanship, and a price to match, but it was gilded and thus just about impossible to test to see if it was silver or not. Luckily there were a couple of high spots on the face where the gilt had worn off and the silver was exposed, so I took it to a jeweller in a nearby stall and had these spots tested. They tested positive as silver. I bought this beautiful hilt and paid silver price for it --- there is a big difference in price between silver objects and copper or brass objects. It took me several years before I discovered that the exposed high spots on the face of this hilt were tiny specks of silver that had been added to the copper base of the hilt, for the express purpose of being exposed to allow a test for silver. I've been flim-flammed many times in Indonesia --- and a few times in other places too. Its called "education".

28th November 2012, 10:48 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,417	Dear Jean, Gustav and Alan, thank you for respond and opinion. I agree with Alan, I am as well never have seen a such blackened ivory hilt before but all I have seen before were very worn. And agree with Gustav and Alan that it could good be possible that it is an other material as I have hoped to see. But as you know I like to gamble by ebay. And the price I have paid (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-VINTAGE-BA...vip=true&rt=nc) was one which is ok for a gamble. We will see if it was winning gamble when I have received it. Regards, Detlef

28th November 2012, 11:33 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes Detlef, $100 is not much to gamble. No matter what the hilt is made from, the total object is probably worth what you paid for it. I used to buy similar objects at a similar level many years ago, its probably a good learning exercise, but its empirical learning. I'm certain that if you remain interested in keris, that sooner or later you will find that your money is better protected and your collecting experience enhanced by buying from slightly more reliable sources than ebay. Living in Europe as you do, I feel that you would find many available sources if you put in the time to look.

30th November 2012, 12:55 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Yes, I guess you're right Detlef. I sometimes tend to forget that not everybody has either the same taste, nor access to the same sources that I have. My apologies for questioning your wisdom.

30th November 2012, 10:29 PM	#7
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I should note that José added that moonstone ring on the hilt. This sliver piece was missing when i purchased it.