Gunong

VANDOO · 30th October 2012, 09:20 PM

ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN DOING A GLUE JOB LIKE THIS ONE IS TO SWAB OUT INSIDE THE HOLE FOR THE TANG SO EXCESS GLUE DOES NOT DRY AND OBSTRUCT THE TANG LATER. HARD GLUE CAN BE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE ESPECIALLY THE EPOXIE TYPES.

Robert · 31st October 2012, 07:44 AM

Hello everyone and thank you all for the advice on what type of glue to use and the tips on making the repairs.

Kai, I will post the pictures of the inside of the hole in the hilt sometime tomorrow both with and without the broken piece in place and one of the open end where the tang is inserted. If there are any others that you would like just let me know before I get everything glued. I always allow a minimum of 72 hours drying time for any repairs using an adhesive before removing the clamps.

Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried.

Barry, tar just might work if I add a few things to it "like when making cutlers resin" to help make it firm when cooled. As far as Elmer's wood glue goes I used to use it before I started using the marine glue and will more than likely use on this repair. I was hoping that there might be something better on the market that someone has had experience using that might be better.

Thank you all again for your help and advice on this project and I will for the first time take pictures during the entire process.

Regards,
Robert

P.S.
After closer examination of the scabbard it looks as though there are two bands missing. The top of the scabbard shows evidence of a wider band and there is also evidence that there were originally two narrow bands. I was thinking of making the missing top band the same style as the ferrule. What would be everyones thoughts on that?

Robert · 31st October 2012, 10:42 PM

Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang. If these are not what you are looking for please let me know.

Regards,
Robert

kai · 1st November 2012, 12:06 AM

Hello Robert,

Quote:

Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang.

Thanks!

Can you ascertain what tool was used to drill the hole?

Regards,
Kai

kai · 1st November 2012, 12:09 AM

BTW, I'd opt for the traditional resin recipe: damar is easy to order online, a bit of beeswax, and a filler and you're ready to go...

Robert · 1st November 2012, 02:55 AM

Kai, As far as I can tell the hole in the hilt looks to have been burnt in, It was more than likely made by using a small round piece of metal that would be heated red and then forced into the wood as far as it would go then the burnt material would be cleaned out with a small thin blade. This process would then be continued until the hole would be of significant depth for the tang to be inserted its full length. This could explain the irregular shape of the hole, larger at the starting point and smaller at its end but not maintaining a true taper. It would also explain the burnt wood smell that I noticed when cleaning the remaining adhesive from the inside surface of the socket. Of course this is all just speculation on my part and there is no way to prove that this was the way it was originally done, though it does make for a good story.

Regards,
Robert

P.S.
Cutlers resin is just pine resin mixed with a bit of beeswax and a filler but it looks as though damar resin is easier to find in small amounts and cheaper !!
Thank you for the tip.

Robert · 2nd November 2012, 07:15 AM

If there are no more questions on the hilt construction I am going to start the restoration process. There is one more question that I would like to ask. If anyone else has had one of these apart, was the tang offset from the centerline of the blade like this example? Thank you again for everyones help and suggestions.

Regards,
Robert

Sajen · 31st October 2012, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Coleman

Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried.

Too bad, this wood glue is very good. Think we speak about the same glue.

Regards,

Detlef

31st October 2012, 10:42 PM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Kai, here are the requested pictures of the hole for the tang. If these are not what you are looking for please let me know. Regards, Robert Attached Images

30th October 2012, 09:20 PM	#1
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ONE THING TO REMEMBER WHEN DOING A GLUE JOB LIKE THIS ONE IS TO SWAB OUT INSIDE THE HOLE FOR THE TANG SO EXCESS GLUE DOES NOT DRY AND OBSTRUCT THE TANG LATER. HARD GLUE CAN BE DIFFICULT TO REMOVE ESPECIALLY THE EPOXIE TYPES.

31st October 2012, 07:44 AM	#2
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Hello everyone and thank you all for the advice on what type of glue to use and the tips on making the repairs. Kai, I will post the pictures of the inside of the hole in the hilt sometime tomorrow both with and without the broken piece in place and one of the open end where the tang is inserted. If there are any others that you would like just let me know before I get everything glued. I always allow a minimum of 72 hours drying time for any repairs using an adhesive before removing the clamps. Detlef, The glue that I used to be able to get was marine glue from one of the local boat repair shops but unfortunately it is now out of production and they are using an epoxy glue now. The one that I was using was a water based glue that was not affected by water after it had dried. Barry, tar just might work if I add a few things to it "like when making cutlers resin" to help make it firm when cooled. As far as Elmer's wood glue goes I used to use it before I started using the marine glue and will more than likely use on this repair. I was hoping that there might be something better on the market that someone has had experience using that might be better. Thank you all again for your help and advice on this project and I will for the first time take pictures during the entire process. Regards, Robert P.S. After closer examination of the scabbard it looks as though there are two bands missing. The top of the scabbard shows evidence of a wider band and there is also evidence that there were originally two narrow bands. I was thinking of making the missing top band the same style as the ferrule. What would be everyones thoughts on that?

1st November 2012, 12:09 AM	#5
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	BTW, I'd opt for the traditional resin recipe: damar is easy to order online, a bit of beeswax, and a filler and you're ready to go...

1st November 2012, 02:55 AM	#6
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Kai, As far as I can tell the hole in the hilt looks to have been burnt in, It was more than likely made by using a small round piece of metal that would be heated red and then forced into the wood as far as it would go then the burnt material would be cleaned out with a small thin blade. This process would then be continued until the hole would be of significant depth for the tang to be inserted its full length. This could explain the irregular shape of the hole, larger at the starting point and smaller at its end but not maintaining a true taper. It would also explain the burnt wood smell that I noticed when cleaning the remaining adhesive from the inside surface of the socket. Of course this is all just speculation on my part and there is no way to prove that this was the way it was originally done, though it does make for a good story. Regards, Robert P.S. Cutlers resin is just pine resin mixed with a bit of beeswax and a filler but it looks as though damar resin is easier to find in small amounts and cheaper !! Thank you for the tip.

2nd November 2012, 07:15 AM	#7
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	If there are no more questions on the hilt construction I am going to start the restoration process. There is one more question that I would like to ask. If anyone else has had one of these apart, was the tang offset from the centerline of the blade like this example? Thank you again for everyones help and suggestions. Regards, Robert