Keris for comments

[Henk]

Keris Panjang or executioner keris from Sumatra. Get rid of the rust and stain the blade. Very nice one.

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

Keris Panjang or executioner keris from Sumatra.

I like this one Henk, but with a 13" blade i don't think we can call it a panjang...

[Henk]

Originally Posted by David

I like this one Henk, but with a 13" blade i don't think we can call it a panjang...

In this way and considering the meaning of the word panjang in the meaning of long or tall you're completely right David
But i refered to my native tongue. When we speak here in Holland about Keris Panjang we don't talk about the size of a keris. For many Dutch keris panjang is equal to excecutioners keris.

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

In this way and considering the meaning of the word panjang in the meaning of long or tall you're completely right David
But i refered to my native tongue. When we speak here in Holland about Keris Panjang we don't talk about the size of a keris. For many Dutch keris panjang is equal to excecutioners keris.

You will have to explain this a bit further for me Henk because i was completely unaware that in Holland you do not differentiate between keris Panjang, Anak Alang and Bahari. They do all have a similar profile/dhapur, but vary in size. And while there is certainly often debate which category the blade might be when the length falls into the gray zones, keris bahari are usually not confused with panjang or called "executioner keris". As far as i know only the longer keris panjang are the ones that are sometimes referred to as "executioner keris", though i find that name somewhat misleading since i do not believe that execution was the main purpose for this kind of keris. It was more a blade of status AFAIK. Though i had always thought that it was the extra length of these keris panjang that made them suitable to perform execution with the "bloodless" method through the collar bone area. I am not convinced that a 13" blade would be appropriate or effective for that action.

[ariel]

Is it Bahari, then?
Still, 13" is plenty to reach the heart from the supraclavicular fossa and go through it, to boot.

[David]

Originally Posted by ariel

Is it Bahari, then?
Still, 13" is plenty to reach the heart from the supraclavicular fossa and go through it, to boot.

Well Ariel..it's either a long Bahari of a short Anak Alang.
As for how much length you need for the "job", keep in mind that the executioner would need to drive this blade all the way to the hilt to get 13" deep. Frankly, i'd rather not be the subject of THAT experiment!

[Royston]

Thanks for the comments Gents.

I will post some more pictures after a clean-up. Away to work for a month so don't hold your breath.

Regards
Roy

[Henk]

Originally Posted by David

You will have to explain this a bit further for me Henk because i was completely unaware that in Holland you do not differentiate between keris Panjang, Anak Alang and Bahari. They do all have a similar profile/dhapur, but vary in size. And while there is certainly often debate which category the blade might be when the length falls into the gray zones, keris bahari are usually not confused with panjang or called "executioner keris". As far as i know only the longer keris panjang are the ones that are sometimes referred to as "executioner keris", though i find that name somewhat misleading since i do not believe that execution was the main purpose for this kind of keris. It was more a blade of status AFAIK. Though i had always thought that it was the extra length of these keris panjang that made them suitable to perform execution with the "bloodless" method through the collar bone area. I am not convinced that a 13" blade would be appropriate or effective for that action.

David,

DAHenkel explained it already in his answer.
You would be surprised in how many houses here in Holland a keris or two is hanging on the wall while the owner has no idea of specific categories or names. It is just a piece of art from our history. Nothing more nothing less.

A few years ago a colleague asked me, you collect that stuff, don't you? I have a keris somewhere my father brought home when he serves as a marine in Indonesia. I will bring it for you, maybe you like it. He brought a very nice maduran keris an gave it to me. His brother has a dagger from his father. That dagger was a rencong.

And also collectors who like to hang some swords and daggers on the wall, who have no idea in detail what they have in their collection.

The differences we use here in the forum and the knowledge present here is great. The dutch collectors who participate on this forum and also some important collectors who don't participate on this forum are very aware of these specifications.

But most Dutch will call a Keris Bugis or Keris Palembang just a keris from Sumatra. If you can classify a keris in keris Java, Madura, Bali or Sumatra it is often said, he has knowledge about these things.

[David]

Originally Posted by Henk

But most Dutch will call a Keris Bugis or Keris Palembang just a keris from Sumatra. If you can classify a keris in keris Java, Madura, Bali or Sumatra it is often said, he has knowledge about these things.

Well Henk, in my country most people would refer to any keris as "That weird knife thingy".
From your original statement you gave me the idea that knowledgable collectors in the Netherlands don't make the distinction. That was my only reason for questioning you...

[Royston]

Thanks again Gents.

Yes it was purchased in Glastonbury. The shop new nothing about it's history.

I had never even considered this long enough to be considered as a keris Panjang. I have two of them and they are half as long again as this one.

What about the cup ? Anyone any suggestions on the fit of this ?

Regards
Roy