"Buginees 'Executioners' Keris" for comment

Atlantia · 26th September 2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Hi Gene,

Very nice keris indeed. But not an executioners keris as we dutch call it or a keris panjang. I have a very old book in dutch wich describes an execution with a keris panjang or executioners keris. When your keris would be used to perform an execution it would give too much mess.

LOL< thanks Henk.

That was the original collectors description so possibly a sales device fo the trader who sold it to him.
I always take that description with a pinch of salt hence the '' around it.
I'm more than happy for it to not have been used for such a ghastly purpose.
It's a good size though!

Henk · 26th September 2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

LOL< thanks Henk.

That was the original collectors description so possibly a sales device fo the trader who sold it to him.
I always take that description with a pinch of salt hence the '' around it.
I'm more than happy for it to not have been used for such a ghastly purpose.
It's a good size though!

You're welcome Gene.

That's usually said here. Buy the weapon not the story.

Ghastly purpose, well, as long as it isn't used against you or me.

As the description tells, one could pass on a few meters without noticing an execution with a keris panjang is done. It is rather painless because the narrow long blade is driven from the collar bone right into the heart. The victim is chewing on a bettelnut which works anaesthetic. Then the blade is excavated while the executioner has cotton fiber on both sites of the blade to clean the blade. When the blade is completely removed the cotton fibber is pushed into the small wound. When done well no blood is visible. By the way, such an execution was only done by command of the sultan.

Atlantia · 26th September 2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

You're welcome Gene.

That's usually said here. Buy the weapon not the story.

Ghastly purpose, well, as long as it isn't used against you or me.

As the description tells, one could pass on a few meters without noticing an execution with a keris panjang is done. It is rather painless because the narrow long blade is driven from the collar bone right into the heart. The victim is chewing on a bettelnut which works anaesthetic. Then the blade is excavated while the executioner has cotton fiber on both sites of the blade to clean the blade. When the blade is completely removed the cotton fibber is pushed into the small wound. When done well no blood is visible. By the way, such an execution was only done by command of the sultan.

Hi Henk
Thats a pretty horrible description!
I'm more glad than ever it wasn't used for that.

kai · 10th October 2012, 11:26 PM

Hello Gene,

Quote:

Thats a pretty horrible description!
I'm more glad than ever it wasn't used for that.

You can't be sure though! (Feel free to send it my way if this makes you feel better.

)

In the "good ol' days" death penalties were handed out way more frequently just about worldwide than today. If I remember correctly, execution by a keris was considered the honorable version while the really bad guys (or folks unlucky enough to belong to the lower stratum of society) were facing even more ghastly alternatives... (This is akin to execution by the sword vs. hanging or torture in medieval Europe.)

I also seem to remember that (on Java?) it was just as likely to have ones keris turned against oneself for this purpose rather than risk sullying another person's keris with bad fate.

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 11th October 2012, 12:56 AM

On execution, I've read a couple of eye witness accounts of execution by keris in Bali, and both told that the person who had been given the duty of carrying out the execution simply walked up to the condemned person and thrust into his chest.

I cannot recall reading of execution by keris in Jawa. I have read a number of accounts of Javanese royal executions, and they varied from execution by combat with a tiger to execution by elephant to execution by garroting, and I have been told of execution by beheading, however, I do have a number of Javanese keris panjang --- maybe half a dozen --- I have no idea at all if these were ever actually used for execution or if they were just some sort of passing whim.

In the early days of Dutch settlement in Jawa the Dutch used to use the in vogue execution methods of the time, such as breaking on the wheel & etc, and the Javanese people used to respond in kind in such charming ways as bending down a couple of saplings, tying the ankles of the captured white man to the separate, bent saplings, and then letting go. It was best if they were big saplings, so he was immediately ripped apart; if they were a bit on the small side the ripping apart process could be quite slow.

Actually hanging, even when it was the slow raise, rather than fast drop method, wasn't all that bad, what was rather unpleasant was the hang-draw-quarter, where the condemned was first slowly hung, then the stomach cavity was opened and entrails extracted, being careful not to remove vital organs that could speed death, then the intestines were fed into a brazier of glowing coals.

The olden times were not real nice to die in.

Re those "barbs". To me this keris looks like a robahan, ie, a keris that has been altered from its original appearance. I've seen a lot of keris that have had the original form altered and turned into something strange, this particular keris would be a very mild example of this. If it is original, it is most certainly something that I have never seen as an original.

11th October 2012, 12:56 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	On execution, I've read a couple of eye witness accounts of execution by keris in Bali, and both told that the person who had been given the duty of carrying out the execution simply walked up to the condemned person and thrust into his chest. I cannot recall reading of execution by keris in Jawa. I have read a number of accounts of Javanese royal executions, and they varied from execution by combat with a tiger to execution by elephant to execution by garroting, and I have been told of execution by beheading, however, I do have a number of Javanese keris panjang --- maybe half a dozen --- I have no idea at all if these were ever actually used for execution or if they were just some sort of passing whim. In the early days of Dutch settlement in Jawa the Dutch used to use the in vogue execution methods of the time, such as breaking on the wheel & etc, and the Javanese people used to respond in kind in such charming ways as bending down a couple of saplings, tying the ankles of the captured white man to the separate, bent saplings, and then letting go. It was best if they were big saplings, so he was immediately ripped apart; if they were a bit on the small side the ripping apart process could be quite slow. Actually hanging, even when it was the slow raise, rather than fast drop method, wasn't all that bad, what was rather unpleasant was the hang-draw-quarter, where the condemned was first slowly hung, then the stomach cavity was opened and entrails extracted, being careful not to remove vital organs that could speed death, then the intestines were fed into a brazier of glowing coals. The olden times were not real nice to die in. Re those "barbs". To me this keris looks like a robahan, ie, a keris that has been altered from its original appearance. I've seen a lot of keris that have had the original form altered and turned into something strange, this particular keris would be a very mild example of this. If it is original, it is most certainly something that I have never seen as an original.