A gamble, your opinion?

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by DAHenkel

in the eighties keris of this type were fairly common in Jalan Surabaya. I would make this about 30 years old giver or take a few year...

Hello Dave,

for whom they were made? And was the quality good?

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

Since you are asking for opinions, Detlef; I would say that I might like this keris more without the brass 'kinatah' overlayed .

Just a sculpture in the pamor itself I would find more interesting .. no need for gloss, IMO .

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Rick

Since you are asking for opinions, Detlef; I would say that I might like this keris more without the brass 'kinatah' overlayed .

Just a sculpture in the pamor itself I would find more interesting .. no need for gloss, IMO .

Hi Rick,

I have tried the gamble because it seems that the quality is good and I personally like keris with kinatah. Let us see what I have bought when I have received it and I can post better pictures. When I was wrong is the amount I have given wasn't extrem!

Regards,

Detlef

[David]

Originally Posted by Sajen

for whom they were made?

I think that for the answer to this we might want to consider just what the significance of the addition of gold kinatah might mean in the culture. Who was a blade with gold kinatah meant for? Then ask, who then would a keris with brass kinatah be made for...

[A. G. Maisey]

I started to see keris with brass kinatah, and brass kinatah gold plated, in the late 1980's, and they continue to be available until today.

As with virtually all keris of the modern era they are made for local consumption, and they are bought by Indonesians as dress keris. Obviously the people who buy them want a bit of bling and cannot afford gold.

I have seen much older keris with kinatah from brass and from alloys other than gold, but these are not common.

The right to kinatah work on a keris was sometimes granted by a ruler, much as medals are given in our own society, however in the far distant past it was also a prerogative of rank. In more recent times --- and I don't know from precisely when --- kinatah was used by anybody who wanted it and could afford it.

As a general rule, we seldom find kinatah work combined with complex pamor.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I have seen much older keris with kinatah from brass and from alloys other than gold, but these are not common.

Pages 181 and 182 show such a Keris if anyone has a copy of "Ferro, oro, pietre prezoise...Le Armi Orientali Dell'Armeris Reale Di Torino.

Gav

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I started to see keris with brass kinatah, and brass kinatah gold plated, in the late 1980's, and they continue to be available until today.

As with virtually all keris of the modern era they are made for local consumption, and they are bought by Indonesians as dress keris. Obviously the people who buy them want a bit of bling and cannot afford gold.

Thank you Alan, this is what I want to know.

Regards,

Detlef

[DAHenkel]

Agree with Alan more or less. I was in Jakarta '85 - 86 and remember seing quite a few of these. Quite variable in quality from fairly good - like yours, all the way to hideous. The big difference these days is that the top end of the market has improved markedly. Your pieces was about as good as it got in those days. Today, there are newly made pieces that rival the artistry of the great old pieces. Wasn't a lot of that around in the mid-Eighties...at least, not on Jalan Surabaya ;o)

[rasjid]

Hi Detlef,

As mentioned previously, this is newly made and still available in the market. It is a good keris and fittings for the price paid (i dont know how much they charge for postage), you are doing allright Some people pay even more in Jakarta. Especially people who never connected on the Internet.

Real Kinatah gold - newly made sometimes sold for over US$10,000 because sold as 95% utuh/condition and Old keris.
This is brass under neath as Jane mentioned (Green Stuff). Some newer model comes with additional gold n Silver also.

Regards
Rasjid

[Sajen]

Dave and Rasjid,

thank you both for the additional informations.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jean]

Originally Posted by rasjid

Real Kinatah gold - newly made sometimes sold for over US$10,000 because sold as 95% utuh/condition and Old keris.
Regards
Rasjid

Attached is the picture of a probably recent blade with 22Kt? gold kinatah on a brass base. I realized it recently because the kinatah is peeling off at one corner due to the lack of care from myself so I could see the underlying brass base, but the gold coating is quite thick actually. Your comments will be welcome.
Regards