Tulwar with pronounced Yelman.

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you so much Jens, and I entirely agree the newly acquired example is likely Rajasthan, and it would be difficult to say if Rajput or Mughal as often the Rajputs were of course Mughal allies and the diffusion would be unclear.
There is always the very elusive possibility that like many tulwars it could even be Sikh.

Which brings me to the identification of Sikh swords, as we are hoping for information here from certain Sikh associates concerning the use of the term tegha. I recall some years ago when I sought to discover if there were any particular guidelines or characteristics, markings etc. which might help in identifying a sword as of Sikh provenance.
I contacted various Sikh individuals and respectfully asked them these questions to which only vague responses were given, with the final response from one gentleman, 'if a Sikh used the sword...then it is Sikh!"
Naturally I would hope for a bit more useful information, but we must again consider the nature of the question.

Since it would seem that the Western need for concise classifications and categorizations ,which often seems to both puzzle and amuse ethnic and tribal informants being interviewed, perhaps we should consider a 'dictionary' of sword or weapon terms. The number of examples of course would be substantial, but to address our 'tegha' term, it might be as follows, and using the various applications:

Tegha: as used in India for the following,
1.) the blade of a sword, glaive, falchion, knife razor (from Persian 'tegh')
2.)A broad, heavy bladed tulwar, curved and used by Muslim warriors
3.) A broad, heavy bladed khanda used by Hindu warriors
4.)a sword with very deeply curved blade during Mughal period (Rawson, 1968,p.18)
5.) a sword , also nimcha or goliah, small and light with slight curve
and Persian script describing deities (Egerton, 1880, p.123)
6.a heavy sword slightly curved and worn by men of rank
7.also goliah
8.an executioners or headsmans sword with heavy blade
9.a short, broad heavy blade with two grooves (Egerton, p.117)

This would enable the use of subclassifications in sword identification catalogs by parenthesizing the applicable use notation and reduce the ever present terminology debates.

All the best,
Jim

[Norman McCormick]

Hi Jens/Jim,
Many thanks for your comments and your ongoing interest. As far as the Tegha/Tulwar versus Tulwar/Tegha discussion my knowledge is neither deep nor wide enough to hazard an educated opinion therefore I am following your posts with much interest. As far as a Sikh and his knowledge or lack of re swords, I agree, it is much the same as I am a Scot therefore by definition I should speak/ understand Scots Gaelic, I do neither. My Sikh friend is very much involved with the local temple and I was hoping that some of the older worthies there may have come across the terminology we are discussing, but very likely you are correct Jens and most probably they have not.
I realise that it is very difficult, as you say, to give a definitive opinion without having the item in hand but are there any photographs that I could take that might help you to form a firmer opinion.
My Regards to you Both,
Norman.


P.S. Just for interest the sword weighs in at 3lbs 5ozs.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Norman McCormick

Hi Jens/Jim,
Many thanks for your comments and your ongoing interest. As far as the Tegha/Tulwar versus Tulwar/Tegha discussion my knowledge is neither deep nor wide enough to hazard an educated opinion therefore I am following your posts with much interest. As far as a Sikh and his knowledge or lack of re swords, I agree, it is much the same as I am a Scot therefore by definition I should speak/ understand Scots Gaelic, I do neither. My Sikh friend is very much involved with the local temple and I was hoping that some of the older worthies there may have come across the terminology we are discussing, but very likely you are correct Jens and most probably they have not.
I realise that it is very difficult, as you say, to give a definitive opinion without having the item in hand but are there any photographs that I could take that might help you to form a firmer opinion.
My Regards to you Both,
Norman.


P.S. Just for interest the sword weighs in at 3lbs 5ozs.

Interesting points from Jens and Jim.
Thats one heavy sword there Norman! I have to say that I know many who would describe it as a Tegha, correct or no.
I'll be interested to hear the opinions of others who study Indo Persian weapons.

Where are Runjeet, Sandeep, Rick, Artzi and all the others?

[Rick]

I'm seeing a different profile here with the kicked up yelman; one that reminds me more of a Kilij than a Tegha .

A conservative Kilij, of course .

[CharlesS]

"Kilij" is simply the Turkish word for 'sword'.

[Rick]

Sorry Charles.
This is what I meant .
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ighlight=kilij

[CharlesS]

No prob.