Keris holder for comment

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Hello, I think the character is Bhima, perhaps it is meant to hold just the lower end (like 1/3 or so) of the sheath?

Hi Tunggulametung,

Bhima? Ah fantastic thank you! Legendary warrior with an equally legendary moustache, he makes a good subject for a Keris stand.)
His grip is quite small, were these ever made to hold weapons other than Keris?

Thanks
Gene

[Jean]

Hi Gene,
Attached is the picture of a similar Balinese holder made from hard wood, it is 60 cm tall and weights 4.5 kg. It is said to depict Bima (moustache, fierce look, long thumbnails). It has a large grip opening and is probably older than yours.
I also attach the pictures of 2 smaller holders which are Javanese I think.
Best regards
Jean

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi Gene,
Attached is the picture of a similar Balinese holder made from hard wood, it is 60 cm tall and weights 4.5 kg. It is said to depict Bima (moustache, fierce look, long thumbnails). It has a large grip opening and is probably older than yours.
I also attach the pictures of 2 smaller holders which are Javanese I think.
Best regards
Jean

Excellent thank you Jean.
I think that settles it, he is Bhima

And a fine moustache it is too!

[A. G. Maisey]

The reason I guessed 1980-1990's is because during that time span Hardiono set up a store in Kuta-Legian under the managership of his niece, and they had an extremely large number of these souvenir keris holders produced. Actually, this could be narrowed to probably 1985-1995. Prior to that I didn't see much between about 1970 and when Hardiono's stuff started to be sold, older keris holders very often have a square base rather than a round base, and keris holders produced for local consumption are carved from hardwood, rather than softwood. During the 1960's and 1970's Bali was still very much unaffected by tourism, yes, there were tourists there, there had been since the 1930's, but the carving centres around Mas and Ubud had not really begun to produce the vast quantities of souvenir quality items.
A keris holder that was produced in the era prior to 1970 could be expected to utilize hardwood, to have a square base, and to have a hole large enough to accept a keris rather than an umbrella, additionally it was more likely to have the rather flat, dull paint used in traditional Balinese carvings, rather than the high-gloss paint that this one appears to have --- still, anything is possible. Collectors usually base their attributions of age upon what they are told by the people they buy from.

In respect of the nomination of Bhima as a candidate. Bhima has more than a single characterisation, we have Bhima or Werkudara, then there is Bratasena (Bhima as a young man), then Bhima Wanda Mimis, Bhima Wanda Lintang --- it goes on. Things are never as simple as we might like them to be. Bhima as Bratasena is often characterised with a snake, and the face of this keris holder has the Balinese characterisation of a warrior's eyes, the waist is small, as Bhima's waist should be, essentially Bhima should be depicted as an athlete, and his defining attribute is the thumbnail, something I cannot see in this keris holder. Still, it could be intended to be Bhima, but is more likely to be a warrior characterisation including some Bhima-like characteristics.

For a better understanding of the way in which the Balinese use characterisation in their art, I suggest a reading of "The Art and Culture of Bali"--- Urs Ramseyer might not go astray. For some guidance on the characteristics of wayang characters, "Rupa & Karakter Wayang Purwa"--- Heru Sujarwo is an excellent source.

Once we have some understanding of the way in which Balinese artists interpret their subject we find that it is not difficult to identify a class of character, for instance, this keris holder statue is obviously a warrior, a brave man but rather coarse, however which specific warrior is never easy to determine, and often depends upon context.

Gene, regarding the quality of Balinese carving. It has not deteriorated. In fact it has improved consistently since the Balinese realised that there was a market for it, and they absorbed the influence of European artists who lived amongst them, commencing well before WWII. But its the old story of we get what we pay for. Very good carving costs very good money, and people who just want a souvenir are usually not prepared to pay much. Because of this much of the Balinese carving that we see in the western world is not really of very good quality.

Jean, the man sitting is Javanese, I've seen a lot of these that were done in Jogja, and this is a typically Javanese style, however I'm not sure about the figure on the rather thin square base, I think from what I can see that it is probably Balinese. These keris holders did not have a place in Javanese society, but they did in Balinese society; I've never seen an old Javanese holder of this style, only new ones done for collectors.

[tunggulametung]

Bima (wayang) character is rather easy to recognize, at least for me personally. Balinese interpretation of Bima for comparison attached (random internet photos). I'm sorry I do not know whether it is also intended for other weapon or not, maybe not all Balinese keris are as big as we thought (not that showy pawiwahan keris), at least I often see small keris comparable to keris selit in Malay term being worn on perang pandan ceremony.

[A. G. Maisey]

In recent times many Balinese men wear Javanese and other keris to ceremonies because there are simply not enough Balinese keris to go around, and many of the current generation do not own their own keris, so they use whatever they can get, I suspect dress keris owned by their banjar and lent for the ceremony.

Lousy pic and I apologise for it --- digitised from film shot on a p&s --- hopefully you can make out the keris the men are wearing, Javanese. This was Hari Nyepi 2007.

[tunggulametung]

The possibility is endless but my point is not all keris Bali (approximately) uniform in size like one size fits all (person, occasion, etc). I think the attached example is about equal to Solo pendok size.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Bima (wayang) character is rather easy to recognize, at least for me personally. Balinese interpretation of Bima for comparison attached (random internet photos). I'm sorry I do not know whether it is also intended for other weapon or not, maybe not all Balinese keris are as big as we thought (not that showy pawiwahan keris), at least I often see small keris comparable to keris selit in Malay term being worn on perang pandan ceremony.

Thanks Tunggulametung,
I don't think there is any doubt at all that my figure is the same person shown in your examples.
All the attributes seeem to be identical. Thumbnail, moustache, skin colour, hairstyle, costume, fierce expression, snake garland, even the black and white chequered sarong. So if those are Bima, then so is mine.
Thank you for your help, I'm very pleased to know who he is.

Best
Gene

[tunggulametung]

You're welcome Gene. Maybe not a masterpiece but it is better than average as you mention , I think the carver are more than able to do it better (refined) indicated by how he do the face/expression which as far as I know the most difficult part, but for some reasons that is not something he pursue (sometimes the selling price expected is just the same ). Congratulations for the nice keris holder.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

The reason I guessed 1980-1990's is because during that time span Hardiono set up a store in Kuta-Legian under the managership of his niece, and they had an extremely large number of these souvenir keris holders produced. Actually, this could be narrowed to probably 1985-1995. Prior to that I didn't see much between about 1970 and when Hardiono's stuff started to be sold, older keris holders very often have a square base rather than a round base, and keris holders produced for local consumption are carved from hardwood, rather than softwood. During the 1960's and 1970's Bali was still very much unaffected by tourism, yes, there were tourists there, there had been since the 1930's, but the carving centres around Mas and Ubud had not really begun to produce the vast quantities of souvenir quality items.
A keris holder that was produced in the era prior to 1970 could be expected to utilize hardwood, to have a square base, and to have a hole large enough to accept a keris rather than an umbrella, additionally it was more likely to have the rather flat, dull paint used in traditional Balinese carvings, rather than the high-gloss paint that this one appears to have --- still, anything is possible. Collectors usually base their attributions of age upon what they are told by the people they buy from.

In respect of the nomination of Bhima as a candidate. Bhima has more than a single characterisation, we have Bhima or Werkudara, then there is Bratasena (Bhima as a young man), then Bhima Wanda Mimis, Bhima Wanda Lintang --- it goes on. Things are never as simple as we might like them to be. Bhima as Bratasena is often characterised with a snake, and the face of this keris holder has the Balinese characterisation of a warrior's eyes, the waist is small, as Bhima's waist should be, essentially Bhima should be depicted as an athlete, and his defining attribute is the thumbnail, something I cannot see in this keris holder. Still, it could be intended to be Bhima, but is more likely to be a warrior characterisation including some Bhima-like characteristics.

For a better understanding of the way in which the Balinese use characterisation in their art, I suggest a reading of "The Art and Culture of Bali"--- Urs Ramseyer might not go astray. For some guidance on the characteristics of wayang characters, "Rupa & Karakter Wayang Purwa"--- Heru Sujarwo is an excellent source.

Once we have some understanding of the way in which Balinese artists interpret their subject we find that it is not difficult to identify a class of character, for instance, this keris holder statue is obviously a warrior, a brave man but rather coarse, however which specific warrior is never easy to determine, and often depends upon context.

Gene, regarding the quality of Balinese carving. It has not deteriorated. In fact it has improved consistently since the Balinese realised that there was a market for it, and they absorbed the influence of European artists who lived amongst them, commencing well before WWII. But its the old story of we get what we pay for. Very good carving costs very good money, and people who just want a souvenir are usually not prepared to pay much. Because of this much of the Balinese carving that we see in the western world is not really of very good quality.

Jean, the man sitting is Javanese, I've seen a lot of these that were done in Jogja, and this is a typically Javanese style, however I'm not sure about the figure on the rather thin square base, I think from what I can see that it is probably Balinese. These keris holders did not have a place in Javanese society, but they did in Balinese society; I've never seen an old Javanese holder of this style, only new ones done for collectors.

Hi Alan,

He has a 'wrestlers' build
Here's his thumbnail and some head shots to show his other attributes.
I'm not sure of the exact year that the chap who collected him 'migrated' back to Holland. As I say, from the things I've seen in his collection and what I know of him was under the impression it was prior to/around 1980, but it's not that importnat TBH. The keris holder is a great thing of better quality than most I see offered on certain auction sites so I'm happy to have it and more interested in attributing it's design.
Now I have a few, I'll be working on a theme for an area of the lounge today!

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by Jean

Hi Gene,
Attached is the picture of a similar Balinese holder made from hard wood, it is 60 cm tall and weights 4.5 kg. It is said to depict Bima (moustache, fierce look, long thumbnails). It has a large grip opening and is probably older than yours.
.........................................
Jean

Jean, I think yours could be Bayu, father of Bima.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Jean, I think yours could be Bayu, father of Bima.

Ah, that's interesting. What distinguishes father from son?

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Ah, that's interesting. What distinguishes father from son?

Visually? I think the easiest way to tell is the hairdo (gelung-Javanese term), I'm not wayang expert so I can't name the details but Bima has a warrior hairdo while Bayu is god that has batara hairdo. It is very complex but if you google for gelung and other attribute in a few days you might know better than I do . Here are two random site to get started (Javanese wayang):
link 1
link 2

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Visually? I think the easiest way to tell is the hairdo (gelung-Javanese term), I'm not wayang expert so I can't name the details but Bima has a warrior hairdo while Bayu is god that has batara hairdo. It is very complex but if you google for gelung and other attribute in a few days you might know better than I do . Here are two random site to get started (Javanese wayang):
link 1
link 2

Hmmm, what do you think?

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Hmmm, what do you think?

Yes kind of. But we are borrowing Javanese term here, there might be a Balinese name for that but I believe it is harder to find, perhaps others can name a good book on Balinese wayang. Incidentally, the reference that you use is Gatotkaca, son of Bima . Specific to the particular gelung, in Java it is connected while in Bali is disconnected (your keris holder is not incomplete/with defect).

[Jean]

Originally Posted by tunggulametung

Jean, I think yours could be Bayu, father of Bima.

Chandra, thank you for the tip and I agree that my piece should not depict Bima because of the hairdress. So he could be Bayu, the wind god?
Regards

[tunggulametung]

Originally Posted by Jean

Chandra, thank you for the tip and I agree that my piece should not depict Bima because of the hairdress. Could he be Bayu, the wind god?
Regards

You're welcome Jean. Yes Bayu/Vayu, the lord of wind, in wayang art he is often depicted with pancanaka thumbnail. Remember we have Bayu and Bima as keris hilt as well

I quote this from wikipedia: Like the other atmospheric deities, he is a "fighter and destroyer", "powerful and heroic."[5]

[tunggulametung]

Gene, I took this photo from Ensiklopedi Keris book. Same character but different style (more comical). I hope it is useful for future reference