African Or Tlingit Copper Dagger

[Mark]

Well, you are comparing the patina on two different metals. Copper tends to stabilize more quickly than iron. The copper behind the pommel would not have been subject to as much contact as the handle and blade, so wouldn't the patina there naturally become deeper? The handle and blade were probably regularly cleaned and worn with use, even, preventing the building up of a patina at all until the item went from working tool to historical artifact. There are also a few explanations for the presence of such "new-looking" rust on the rivets, such as again the fact that rust might have been kept off while it was in actual use, then took hold after it was collected put in a drawer somewhere (they might even be replacements for old ones that rusted away).

I'm just saying that we shouldn't reach any firm conclusions based on the rust on the rivets and differences in the copper patina.

Somthing Jose wrote a while back surprised me and I meant to comment on it. Mother-of-pearl was not available in the Pacific NW until the turn of the century? I would have thought that bits of mussel shells would have been a staple embellishment for a long time, and even abolone is found along the California coast somewhere (good trade item, there). Shell decoration was pretty common among other No. Am. tribes, I believe even pre-Columbian. An intriguing anthropological quirk.

[fearn]

Hi Mark,

I think you're right, insofar as two metals make it more complicated. I'm still skeptical about the age of the piece.

So far as the mother-of-pearl goes, I was trying to avoid that. So far as I know, the shell decoration in the PNW was abalone, while mother-of-pearl technically comes from the pearl oyster. Yes, we're talking about something that occurs in more than these two molluscs, but the basic point is that abalone tends to be a bit bluer than mother-of-pearl, I think. As to whether those eyes are MOP or abalone, I haven't a good guess.


F

[tomahawk]

Hello Everyone! I misstated when I said mother of pearl, the seller said it was
Abalone. But I am not well enough versed to say if it is or not?
I am looking forward hearing from the museum curator Sept. 11. Thanks again for your help! Tomahawk

[Battara]

In my original comment, I stated that mother-of-pearl was not available. Abalone was and was used especially in NW Coast carvings. Trade did not stop there, however. Abalone shell can also be found in some Mississippian cultural pieces and in the SW, though more turquoise was traded and more abalone seen in the NW coast. Mother-of-pearl is found in the region of Indonesia-Philippines. Although it is possible that it could have been traded by Spanish galleon, it was not much used until the turn of the 20c.

[Jim McDougall]

I have been watching this thread with great interest as I find the Pacific Northwest especially fascinating, and the more I look at this unusual dagger, which indeed appears Tlingit, I feel more that it may possibly be a more votive item. While I cannot claim any special knowledge on artifacts from these regions, I wonder if this may have any association with the well established 'potlatch' ceremonies common to these tribes. The potlatch was a ceremony which eventually replaced actual warfare, in which prominant tribal figures sought to gain distinction and favor in various situations by competing to see who could give up the most wealth in lavish giveaway ceremonies (discussed in "Keepers of the Totem", Time-Life, 1993, p.151).

The dagger itself, while in Tlingit form, seems 'decorative' rather than for actual use in the way the totem figure is attached to the tang of the knife, especially as it is simply a facade and open in back. The blade, being of copper, however crudely made, may have been significant because of the copper alone.

The apparant high regard for copper, and its use particularly in potlatch ceremony, is discussed in "Crossroads of Continents" Ed. Wm.Fitzhugh & A.Crowell, Smithsonian, 1988), in the following article paragraph:

"...objects of particular wealth, which were often decorated with crest designs, were the shield shaped sheets of copper. 'Coppers' were appropriate as marraige or potlatch gifts or as the purchase price for land. All Northwest coppers that have been tested are made of European copper, intended for or used as sheathing for ships bottoms. Although some copper may have been scavenged by the Indians from wrecked ships, most copper was obtained from European traders".
from "Tlingit: People of the Wolf and Raven"
Frederick de Laguna, Fitzhugh,op.cit. p.62

While the typical form for these objects is described as 'shields', perhaps more innovative and traditional objects such as this dagger representing a clans warrior heritage may be considered as possible potlatch offerings?

I think that many of these items of not necessarily great age from distinct ethnographic groups maintain considerable integrity and interest for the symbolic purpose for which they were intended. This example certainly seems to have such potential, as always, more research !!!

Best regards,
JIm

[tomahawk]

Hello Everyone! I have been surfing the web and found this Northwest Coast dagger that sold in one of Sotheby's auctions in May of 2000. Please excuse the bad photo. As you can see on this particual dagger the mask is not presented in profile as someone earlier had mentioned but is shown in full view - same as my dagger. This particular dagger meaured 21 1/2" and is decribed as follows: Northwest Coast dagger, probably Tlingit, that is 21 1/2 inches high, and has a finely carve horn veneer handle in the form of a "voracious sea creature. with thick lips, jagged teeth, flaring nostrils and hollowed eye frames with classic ovoid eye rims, holding a shaman figure in its caping mouth. This one is a ceremonial dagger. I would assume mine is ceremonial also?

tomahawk