Bali keris pamor

Jean · 19th April 2012, 08:08 PM

Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old.
Regards

David · 19th April 2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old.
Regards

I agree that this is an older Bali blade. Also agree that tangkis is a Javanese terminology. How do you determine that the pamor is not accidental?

Jean · 20th April 2012, 09:36 AM

By "accidental" I mean unwanted pamor and not unplanned pamor.
If this was a Javanese blade, I would compare the motif with known ones described by Tammens or Van Veenendaal for instance but this is probably not applicable for a Balinese blade.
This blade is well made and I doubt that the maker would have left an unwanted motif but I don't know whether it is a planned or unplanned one. The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself.
Regards

dbhmgb · 20th April 2012, 01:26 PM

"The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself."

It's funny that you say that - my eye is untrained and my knowledge fits on the head of a pin - but, when I first studied the pamor, that exact thought entered my mind. It just seem "off" to me.

Greybeard · 20th April 2012, 02:15 PM

Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...

David · 20th April 2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...

Frankly, i have seen at least as couple of Bali keris that people have painted "pamor" patterns onto that were that were actually half way decent keris, not the tourist crap where you'd expect that, probably because that thought they could sell it for more that way. So there is precedent for that. I also thought that the pattern here looked a bit superficial at first, but the photos alone just don't give me enough information to form a strong opinion either way.
And Jean, my use of "accidental" was to mean "unplanned", not "unwanted".

Jean · 20th April 2012, 06:46 PM

David, I agree with you, although the picture is clear it is not possible to determine if the pamor motif is genuine or fake (applied or etched with acid) but if the case, it is more smartly made than usually. It also seems odd to do it on one side of the blade only but who knows?
Regards

19th April 2012, 08:08 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old. Regards

20th April 2012, 09:36 AM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	By "accidental" I mean unwanted pamor and not unplanned pamor. If this was a Javanese blade, I would compare the motif with known ones described by Tammens or Van Veenendaal for instance but this is probably not applicable for a Balinese blade. This blade is well made and I doubt that the maker would have left an unwanted motif but I don't know whether it is a planned or unplanned one. The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself. Regards

20th April 2012, 01:26 PM	#4
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	"The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself." It's funny that you say that - my eye is untrained and my knowledge fits on the head of a pin - but, when I first studied the pamor, that exact thought entered my mind. It just seem "off" to me.

20th April 2012, 02:15 PM	#5
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...

20th April 2012, 06:46 PM	#7
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	David, I agree with you, although the picture is clear it is not possible to determine if the pamor motif is genuine or fake (applied or etched with acid) but if the case, it is more smartly made than usually. It also seems odd to do it on one side of the blade only but who knows? Regards