Bali keris pamor

David · 19th April 2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

"Tangkis- a means of warding off, or a shield; a blade is said to have pamor tangkis when
it carries a different pamor motif on each of its blade faces, and this is considered to be a talisman against black magic."

This has always been my understanding of the definition of "tangkis". It is not the name of a specific pamor pattern per se, but when there is a different pamor on each side of the blade. I am not sure that this Henri's blade qualifies for the category since there seems to be no pamor on one side.

I could be wrong, but his appears to be an accidental pamor. Such pamors are usually considered special due to their accidental nature i believe.

Sajen · 19th April 2012, 04:41 PM

I am not very sure as well David, of course, one side is kelengan, the other side have pamor. Think it's still pamor tangkis.

Regards,

Detlef

Jean · 19th April 2012, 08:08 PM

Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old.
Regards

David · 19th April 2012, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean

Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old.
Regards

I agree that this is an older Bali blade. Also agree that tangkis is a Javanese terminology. How do you determine that the pamor is not accidental?

Jean · 20th April 2012, 09:36 AM

By "accidental" I mean unwanted pamor and not unplanned pamor.
If this was a Javanese blade, I would compare the motif with known ones described by Tammens or Van Veenendaal for instance but this is probably not applicable for a Balinese blade.
This blade is well made and I doubt that the maker would have left an unwanted motif but I don't know whether it is a planned or unplanned one. The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself.
Regards

dbhmgb · 20th April 2012, 01:26 PM

"The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself."

It's funny that you say that - my eye is untrained and my knowledge fits on the head of a pin - but, when I first studied the pamor, that exact thought entered my mind. It just seem "off" to me.

Greybeard · 20th April 2012, 02:15 PM

Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...

19th April 2012, 04:41 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,409	I am not very sure as well David, of course, one side is kelengan, the other side have pamor. Think it's still pamor tangkis. Regards, Detlef

19th April 2012, 08:08 PM	#3
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Yeah, I agree that this is a borderline case because of the pamor kelengan and just a pamor motif on the other side, and tangkis is a javanese name AFAIK. The odd pamor motif seems original and not accidental from the pictures, but a closer inspection could reveal the contrary. The blade looks original and old. Regards

20th April 2012, 09:36 AM	#5
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	By "accidental" I mean unwanted pamor and not unplanned pamor. If this was a Javanese blade, I would compare the motif with known ones described by Tammens or Van Veenendaal for instance but this is probably not applicable for a Balinese blade. This blade is well made and I doubt that the maker would have left an unwanted motif but I don't know whether it is a planned or unplanned one. The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself. Regards

20th April 2012, 01:26 PM	#6
dbhmgb Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 112	"The pamor motif looks to be superficial so it may have been made more recently than the blade itself." It's funny that you say that - my eye is untrained and my knowledge fits on the head of a pin - but, when I first studied the pamor, that exact thought entered my mind. It just seem "off" to me.

20th April 2012, 02:15 PM	#7
Greybeard Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Switzerland Posts: 124	Yes, Jean, I agree: The pamor looks very superficial -- almost like painted on ...