Jamdhar katari - a theory

Stan S. · 12th April 2012, 07:43 PM

Some more

Stan S. · 12th April 2012, 07:45 PM

Also, while we are at it, I would be very gratefull if someone could help me desypher the writing on the blade. It may be pictures of some kind. They are present on both sides and are also faintly repeated on the front of the scabbard.

spiral · 12th April 2012, 10:50 PM

I only hope that one day I can be as insightful as you....

I think youve without doubt taken the history of these weapons one step further than anyone else.....

Spiral

Emanuel · 13th April 2012, 07:50 AM

Hi Stan,

I'll throw a wrinkle at you

. I don't recall the source - it might have been in Pant, or in the old catalog about Akbar's weapons, I'm sure it's in one of the older threads here - but it seems that the naming connection is actually the other way around. What we known as "katar" is actually called "jamadhar" and the "katar" bit was erroneously attributed to the wrong knife type. Both knives were in the same drawing palte.

A quick search reveals that "katar" is a derivative of "kutarni" which means knife in Hindi. I think someone mentioned this in the old threads.

So "jamdhar katari" would be a knife of jamdhar type, not a jamdhar of katar type. Either way, "katari" refers to the blade, not the specific handle type.

Note than "jamadar" was a military rank. While it was a minor rank in modern times, I recall reading it was closer to the rank of captain in pre-colonial times.

Just some more thoughts...

Regards,
Emanuel

Emanuel · 13th April 2012, 08:32 AM

While searching for synonyms for "knife" I also found "chhuri" origin of the word "choora". "ch-huri" and "kutarni" both have feminine ending, while "choora" would have been masculine. This brings back to mind the debate over chooras and karuds. Since both words literally mean "knife" it wouldn't matter what we call them to their original owners/makers.

Emanuel

Stan S. · 13th April 2012, 03:57 PM

So is the similarity between hilts purely coincidental?

chregu · 13th April 2012, 08:37 PM

hello together
I find your thinking well!
in my records, "Hermann Historica," it says in Jamdhar Katari: the weapon of tribal Kafirs (Arabic for infidel).
Indo-folk on the southern slopes of the Hindu Kush, to the east of Kashmir .............
is that correct?
If so, you would have to find out what language does this folk, and then compare what knife in this language means. Perhaps it simply means knife?
here are my piece
greeting Chregu

12th April 2012, 07:43 PM	#1
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	Some more Attached Images

13th April 2012, 07:50 AM	#4
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hi Stan, I'll throw a wrinkle at you . I don't recall the source - it might have been in Pant, or in the old catalog about Akbar's weapons, I'm sure it's in one of the older threads here - but it seems that the naming connection is actually the other way around. What we known as "katar" is actually called "jamadhar" and the "katar" bit was erroneously attributed to the wrong knife type. Both knives were in the same drawing palte. A quick search reveals that "katar" is a derivative of "kutarni" which means knife in Hindi. I think someone mentioned this in the old threads. So "jamdhar katari" would be a knife of jamdhar type, not a jamdhar of katar type. Either way, "katari" refers to the blade, not the specific handle type. Note than "jamadar" was a military rank. While it was a minor rank in modern times, I recall reading it was closer to the rank of captain in pre-colonial times. Just some more thoughts... Regards, Emanuel Last edited by Emanuel; 13th April 2012 at 08:37 AM.

13th April 2012, 08:37 PM	#7
chregu Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: switzerland Posts: 298	hello together I find your thinking well! in my records, "Hermann Historica," it says in Jamdhar Katari: the weapon of tribal Kafirs (Arabic for infidel). Indo-folk on the southern slopes of the Hindu Kush, to the east of Kashmir ............. is that correct? If so, you would have to find out what language does this folk, and then compare what knife in this language means. Perhaps it simply means knife? here are my piece greeting Chregu Attached Images

12th April 2012, 07:45 PM	#2
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	Also, while we are at it, I would be very gratefull if someone could help me desypher the writing on the blade. It may be pictures of some kind. They are present on both sides and are also faintly repeated on the front of the scabbard.

12th April 2012, 10:50 PM	#3
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I only hope that one day I can be as insightful as you.... I think youve without doubt taken the history of these weapons one step further than anyone else..... Spiral

13th April 2012, 08:32 AM	#5
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	While searching for synonyms for "knife" I also found "chhuri" origin of the word "choora". "ch-huri" and "kutarni" both have feminine ending, while "choora" would have been masculine. This brings back to mind the debate over chooras and karuds. Since both words literally mean "knife" it wouldn't matter what we call them to their original owners/makers. Emanuel

13th April 2012, 03:57 PM	#6
Stan S. Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Brooklyn, NY USA Posts: 227	So is the similarity between hilts purely coincidental?