Luzon Bolo With Wootz Blade!

ibeam · 22nd August 2005, 03:58 PM

Thank you All,
I tried to take a close up of the blade and here it is. The clean smooth steel in the bottom of the picture is the blade edge. Most of the patterning happens just above this hardened edge.

Thanks Lew for posting the sword.

Ferguson · 22nd August 2005, 08:46 PM

I fiddled with your pic in Photoshop to try to show the pattern better. Don't know if it's better or worse.

Lovely Bolo though!

Gt Obach · 22nd August 2005, 09:47 PM

what did you etch with......

it does look very wootzy... nice blade

Greg

Ian · 22nd August 2005, 11:17 PM

I think we need the help of Dr Ann for this one (e-mail sent).

Perhaps we are just seeing some unusual crystallization associated with the process for hardening of the edge.

Ian.

Lew · 22nd August 2005, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian

I think we need the help of Dr Ann for this one.

Perhaps we are just seeing some unusual crystallization associated with the hardening of the edge.

Ian.

Ian

I emailed Dr. Ann she thinks it could be wootz from southern India?

Lew

Battara · 22nd August 2005, 11:24 PM

Rsword corrected me once in that I thought my gunong was wootz. It looked like it, but was not crystaline. This one looks very similar to mine. If Rsword is around, would like to get his opinoin was well. Maybe I'll post some pics for comparison.

Ann Feuerbach · 22nd August 2005, 11:56 PM

Hi all!
I agree it is difficult to judge from a picture. It either looks like very fine south Indian wootz, or very complicated lamination. The blade shape does look as though it may be from a ground down old sword blade. Stick it under a microscope and see if you can see any spheroidal cementite. I know, easier said than done!
Battara, I did not know you were from Louisville. I was just there to visit the Frazier.

RSWORD · 23rd August 2005, 01:10 AM

It is very difficult to tell from the pictures but I think Ian is right on the money in that this is some unusual crystallization from the heat treatment of the blade. Sometimes old pieces of metal that would be used for making blades, ie very old railroad track, from the years of use when forged out would have an unusually high amount of carbon. I once had a Japanese sword that had a blade that had been forged from railroad steel. The area around the hamon where it had been heat treated had a very wootz-like appearance to it but it was not forged from a wootz ingot but rather the railroad rails which due to age and heavy wear created a high carbon steel. What is wootz steel. A high carbon steel. Much of the steel the Japanese utilized late in the war was old railway rails, much of which was Sheffield steel. Good steel. I have heard of many smiths over the years adding old, well used horse shoes and handmade nails to their forging process which in effect increased the carbon content in the finished product. While it is hard to say for sure in this example, I would say it is very unlikely to have been forged from a wootz ingot or an old wootz blade and more likely has been forged from old steel(maybe some old railway lines if they existed at this time?) and once heat treated the higher carbon content, when polished and etched, will have a wootz like appearance.

kai · 22nd August 2005, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibeam

I tried to take a close up of the blade and here it is.

Thanks for the pic, Ibeam! Ok, I see the pattern which you are referring to as wootz. However, could you please try to get an even clearer pic? Waiting for a completely overcast day does help... Since this may be such an unique piece, I'd love to get the documentation as good as possible!

Quote:

The clean smooth steel in the bottom of the picture is the blade edge. Most of the patterning happens just above this hardened edge.

That's like fire-hardening a bronze sword's edge...

Actually, this lack of pattern may be a more compelling evidence that this really is wootz: Seems like the bladesmith was unaware of the requirements for forging wootz and thus destroyed the hard wootz edge during a futile conventional "hardening" step!

Maybe this blade was made from an imported wootz blank/blade? Is it possible to deduce from the pattern wether it was just filed into shape or is there any forging noticeable?

Sorry for being a pain!

Regards,
Kai

22nd August 2005, 03:58 PM	#1
ibeam Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New Jersey Posts: 134	Many Thanks Thank you All, I tried to take a close up of the blade and here it is. The clean smooth steel in the bottom of the picture is the blade edge. Most of the patterning happens just above this hardened edge. Thanks Lew for posting the sword. Attached Images

22nd August 2005, 08:46 PM	#2
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I fiddled with your pic in Photoshop to try to show the pattern better. Don't know if it's better or worse. Lovely Bolo though! Attached Images

22nd August 2005, 09:47 PM	#3
Gt Obach Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 116	what did you etch with...... it does look very wootzy... nice blade Greg

22nd August 2005, 11:17 PM	#4
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,608	I think we need the help of Dr Ann for this one (e-mail sent). Perhaps we are just seeing some unusual crystallization associated with the process for hardening of the edge. Ian.

22nd August 2005, 11:24 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,363	Rsword corrected me once in that I thought my gunong was wootz. It looked like it, but was not crystaline. This one looks very similar to mine. If Rsword is around, would like to get his opinoin was well. Maybe I'll post some pics for comparison.

22nd August 2005, 11:56 PM	#7
Ann Feuerbach Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 133	Hi all! I agree it is difficult to judge from a picture. It either looks like very fine south Indian wootz, or very complicated lamination. The blade shape does look as though it may be from a ground down old sword blade. Stick it under a microscope and see if you can see any spheroidal cementite. I know, easier said than done! Battara, I did not know you were from Louisville. I was just there to visit the Frazier.

23rd August 2005, 01:10 AM	#8
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,094	It is very difficult to tell from the pictures but I think Ian is right on the money in that this is some unusual crystallization from the heat treatment of the blade. Sometimes old pieces of metal that would be used for making blades, ie very old railroad track, from the years of use when forged out would have an unusually high amount of carbon. I once had a Japanese sword that had a blade that had been forged from railroad steel. The area around the hamon where it had been heat treated had a very wootz-like appearance to it but it was not forged from a wootz ingot but rather the railroad rails which due to age and heavy wear created a high carbon steel. What is wootz steel. A high carbon steel. Much of the steel the Japanese utilized late in the war was old railway rails, much of which was Sheffield steel. Good steel. I have heard of many smiths over the years adding old, well used horse shoes and handmade nails to their forging process which in effect increased the carbon content in the finished product. While it is hard to say for sure in this example, I would say it is very unlikely to have been forged from a wootz ingot or an old wootz blade and more likely has been forged from old steel(maybe some old railway lines if they existed at this time?) and once heat treated the higher carbon content, when polished and etched, will have a wootz like appearance.