Research on a fine medieval German mail shirt.

[cornelistromp]

Originally Posted by Swordfish

You are surely right, that generally more smaller rings are a better protection against a cutting sword. But this is only right if the rings have the same wire diameter as larger rings. But such small rings like the ones posted above must have and have a smaller wire diameter. The last sample has only a wire diameter of 0.6 mm, compared with a wire diameter of 1.2-1.6 mm for a usual mail shirt. But the weakest area of a riveted ring is not the ring itself, it is the rivet. I was not able to measure the diameter of the rivet, but I assume that the diameter is no more than c. 0.3-0.5 mm in a wire of 0.6 mm (a paper-clip has a wire diam. of 0.8 mm!), although the wire is flattened at the area of the rivet. Therefore such mail shirts are extremely fragile against damage, which I have seen on my own mail shirt. Therefore I am sure that such mail shirts could never have been used for figting.

Best

by a blow or cut with a sword, the sword energy is divided over a lot of rings , also the density in the mail with smaller rings is much higher.
Therefor these rings don't need to be as thick in cross-section, compared with the rings having a larger diameter


example: a butcher's glove with even smaller rings offers protection against a butcher's cleaver!

Every theory is fine with me but i do think that this 6kg mail has had more function than just status.

best,

[Swordfish]

I`m sorry to contradict you completely. The comparison with a butcher`glove is not reasonable. A butcher`s glove must have small rings to get the feel and mobility of the fingers. A butcher`s glove must must protect only against the cut with a sharp knife and against the penetration of the tip of the knife. Therefore a small ring with a thin wire is necessary and sufficient. But this is completely different than a heavy blow with a sword blade, which has a multiple of energy.
The shirt is of the second half of the 15th century, probably from the last quarter. Every wealthy knight will have worn at this time at least a breast-plate to protect the breast. Why then wear an extremely expensive mail shirt? Only to protect the upper arms?
Such small rings certainly offer protection only against a light blow of a sword. But that is not the point. As already mentioned, the weakest area of such small rings is the rivetting. In the field a mail shirt is worn all day. Any contact with a sharp edge would tear a hole in the shirt. After several weeks, the shirt would be torn. If you compare in reality such a small ring with a ring of a strong fighting shirt, you will comprehend immediately the difference.
I have attached two photos. The first shows strong rings of a short fighting shirt of good quality, with short sleeves, dating c. 1500. The weight of this shirt is 8 kg, it is constructed of c. 22.000 rings with a diam. of c.9.5 mm and a wire diam. of 1.5 mm. The rivet has a diam. of 0.85 mm.
The second photo shows two rings, one from this shirt and another from the Arsenal shirt for comparison. The outside diameter and the wire diameter is ab. the half, how thin must than be the diameter of the rivet? The weight of the small ring is only 1/7 of the strong ring. Such rings could never have sufficient strength for a mail shirt suitable for fighting.

Best

[cornelistromp]

I respect your opinion of course and perhaps the example of the butcher's glove is not well chosen.

I have a side-note, in the middle east in the 15thC were the opponents mainly lightly armored. Most probably because it was unbearably to wear heavy protection in the (literal) heat of battle. The frequent occurrence of cutting swords coming from the alexandria arsenal point in this direction.

Probably the light maile, on its own, offers not enough protection however it can be that a light maile worn in combination with an aketons/gambesons or the middle-eastern kazaghand would have given adequate protection against heavy blows of a cutting sword.

The maile is worn below or above these multilayered clothing.

(Picures are from Nathan Robinson)

[fernando]

Originally Posted by cornelistromp

... Probably the light maile, on its own, offers not enough protection however it can be that a light maile worn in combination with an aketons/gambesons or the middle-eastern kazaghand would have given adequate protection against heavy blows of a cutting sword.
The maile is worn below or above these multilayered clothing. ...

Ah, the gambeson. A bit off topic, but allow me to post here the gambeson worn by King Dom João I in the battle of Aljubarrota (14th August 1385).
This is one of the rarest medieval military vests existing today in the world. Made of flax, wool (cushion), silk and gold thread.
One of the pictures shows the actual example presently exhibited in a local museum and the other shows how the experts figured it should have been when brand new.

.

[cornelistromp]

Hi Fernando,

magnificent specimen. thanks for posting.

best,
Jasper

[Swordfish]

It was sold some days ago at an auction in Germany for more than Euro 10.000 including premium. I am very familiar with it, because it was once in my possession. I have examined it carefully and have removed a single ring for close examination. The shirt is manufactured of a close mesh of small riveted rings with an equal outside diam. of c. 8.5-9.0 mm, a sligtly flattened wire with a thickness of 0.9 mm and a width of 1.2 mm. A single ring weighs 0.2122g. It is a long (85cm) and heavy shirt with half length sleeves. The rings are made of hardened steel. The weight of the whole shirt is 10.1 kg, it is therefore constructed of more than 47.000 rings. As mentioned in the preceding posts, I believe that shirts with a considerable higher number of rings as this are not made for fighting, but only for celebration purposes.

Best