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25th February 2012, 03:57 PM
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#1 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi John,
Thank you so much for your comprehensive and well considered explanation! I must admit that I had quite similar feelings that that object might be dysfunctional, composite, or a fake when I first saw the catalog offer and so I decided neither to view or purchase it; I not even asked for aditional images, which I usually do when I see something of deeper intrerest. Like you, the dissimilarity between what usual period grape shots look like - just as you ascertained, they are usually heavily packed forming a firm and integral unit - and the appearance of this item, both outward and inward, struck me. For a span of time, I was uncertain whether to put it up for discussion or not. Anyway, for more information on the usual types of grape shot, I would like to recommend referring to my thread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ght=grape+shot Best, Michael |
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25th February 2012, 05:43 PM
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#2 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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26th February 2012, 01:02 AM
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#3 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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I posted a link back to here, on the Graybeard forum, with my skeptical comments about the Hermann H. wooden canister shot. One of the members there posted links to info and a photo of a similar-looking wooden canister projectile, and another that wasn't so similar. The one at this link is the similar one. I am more ready to accept the Hermann item as genuine now that I've seen this one.
http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/things/...count=16&pos=9 |
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26th February 2012, 11:33 AM
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#4 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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John, let me post that image from the collections of the Armémuseum Stockholm for a broader understanding.
This item is especially interesting as it is also a canister but the dating given varies a lot from that assigned by Hermann. m Last edited by Matchlock; 26th February 2012 at 01:08 PM. |
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26th February 2012, 01:10 PM
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#5 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
Thank you so much, John, That's exactly why I established my private archive!   Best, Michael |
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26th February 2012, 02:15 PM
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#6 |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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Three others again from, Sweden? Our member "steelcharge" on the Graybeard forum must be Swedish because he finds these things with ease. A search of the "Digitalmuseum" of the Armeemuseum for the Swedish word for canister round gave me 13 pages and probably over 200 projectiles, but a number are too modern to be within scope for this forum. However the three at these links are within the family under discussion. I did not pull out any photos for separate posting because I know if it was appropriate to do here, Michael can do it much more efficiently than I can. One thing I like about Sweden is that the colder-average (and perhaps dryer) environment preserves things beyond the age at which any similar items in warmer, more humid countries have long-since disintegrated.
http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/things/...count=16&pos=5 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/things/...count=16&pos=8 http://www.digitaltmuseum.se/things/...S-AM/AM.062616 Also, sorry but I can't remember if I ever posted this video here before. It shows a group of us firing home-made canister rounds from an antique bronze swivel gun with about a 2 1/8-inch bore. As you can see the canister rounds we made were very simple yet they functioned effectively. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsVaT694wI8 Last edited by cannonmn; 26th February 2012 at 02:31 PM. |
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26th February 2012, 02:42 PM
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#7 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Great finds, John, thank you!
Would you consent to my posting the images?  Most remarkable in my mind is the detail where you see that the internal ball load actually fills the canister - and this does make sense physically, in contradistinction to the one at Hermann that we have been discussing ... And: you are definitely right about the preservation-friendly Swedish climate. I should add, though, that our Bavarian stored items are generally preserved quite fine as well - of course given the fact that they were not acid-treated by some museum member gone rust hysteric ... and that species is by no means extinct! Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 26th February 2012 at 04:23 PM. |
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26th February 2012, 10:16 PM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 161
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However in my humble and only partially-knowledgeable opinion, in the U.S. at least, posting the actual photos would qualify as "fair use for educational purposes" since we're not doing this with a profit motive, and we're certainly doing this to educate other members of the forum. As I recall Fair Use is included under section 107 of the Copyright Law of 1976. When material such as these photos are used for educational purposes, the weight of opinion almost always comes down on the side of "fair use." I don't know the location of the forum's server, but if it is in the U.S., that's the best possible location as far as "fair use" for our purposes here. Last edited by cannonmn; 27th February 2012 at 12:50 AM. |
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27th February 2012, 04:21 PM
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#9 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Ok, here they are.
m |
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Hybrid Mode
