BLUNDERBUSS FROM YORK MAIL

Matchlock · 22nd February 2012, 07:05 PM

Hi Cerjak,

Congratulations: this is a very nice, sturdy and obviously historically remarkable English flintlock blunderbuss of ca. 1790; please note the shape of the lock parts and the sliding safety catch left of the cock.

The inscriptions, especially on the impressive muzzle face, suggest that it once was used by a postman of the Royal York Mail. Unfortunately I could not identify the proof marks.

Just imagine you were a late 18th-c. highway man trying to mind your 'business', and all of a sudden had to face this muzzle loaded with eight to ten musket balls - reading the inscription while the dog was cocked!

What bore is it?

Best,
Michael

Fernando K · 22nd February 2012, 07:26 PM

Hola, Cerjak:

Tengo mas dudas que certezas.....Me parece que es una falsificación, o al menos, un trabuco al que se le ha agregado leyendas. YORK MAIL está punzonado con punzones completos,(cada letra) cuando lo habitual era que se fuera armando con punzones simples. Lo mismo para la inscripción HIS MAJESTIES MAIL, cuando lo habitual era HAPPY HE HE ESCAPES ME. El punzón que imita al punzón del Banco de Pruebas (London o Birmingham) no creo que perteneciera a un arma oficial, de la corona....

Es solo una opinión

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hello, Cerjak:

I have more doubts than certainties ..... I think it's a fake, or at least, a blunderbuss where inscriptions were added. YORK MAIL is stamped with loose punctions when it was usual to engrave continuous lettering. Same for the inscription HIS MAJESTIES MAIL, contrary to the usual HAPPY HE ESCAPES ME. The punction that imitates the Proof house marks (London or Birmingham), i do not think it belonged to an official crown gun ....

It's just an opinion

Affectionately. Fernando K

fernando · 22nd February 2012, 07:56 PM

... And i am no linguist but, i guess it should be either His Majesty or Their Majesties, right ?

Probably the phrase was not written by an english speaking person ?

A nice blunderbuss, in any case

fernando · 22nd February 2012, 07:57 PM

... And the lock doesn't have the slightest mark

Cerjak · 22nd February 2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

... And i am no linguist but, i guess it should be either His Majesty or Their Majesties, right ?

Probably the phrase was not written by an english speaking person ?

A nice blunderbuss, in any case

Fernando see this link his majesties seems to be a correct english or was a correct expression long time ago
http://www.lukehistory.com/resources/yorkdec.html
Regards
Cerjak

Cerjak · 22nd February 2012, 10:23 PM

http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitize...t/reasons.html

fernando · 22nd February 2012, 10:45 PM

Yes, you are right.
It is old english for the possessive case; in the new morphology the ' replaced the e.

spiral · 22nd February 2012, 11:17 PM

Interesting piece Fernando, The font used on the end of the muzle, bieng totaly sans serif dates post late 1870s when it first started to be used, as far as my observations have taken me. {other than on fake markings of course.} {But such font was still rare untill the 20th century.}.}

The "perhaps" older font used on top of the barrel is clearly done with individual stamps,

i have no evidence otherwise for york mail but as the average wood worker could afford stamps cut by an engineer of there entire name, I suspect York Mail could as well. {Especialy as many such stamps were actualy made in Sheffield, Yorkshire.}

I vote XXI century For the markings, I am not capable of dating the piece itself.

Spiral

22nd February 2012, 07:05 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Cerjak, Congratulations: this is a very nice, sturdy and obviously historically remarkable English flintlock blunderbuss of ca. 1790; please note the shape of the lock parts and the sliding safety catch left of the cock. The inscriptions, especially on the impressive muzzle face, suggest that it once was used by a postman of the Royal York Mail. Unfortunately I could not identify the proof marks. Just imagine you were a late 18th-c. highway man trying to mind your 'business', and all of a sudden had to face this muzzle loaded with eight to ten musket balls - reading the inscription while the dog was cocked! What bore is it? Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 22nd February 2012 at 07:55 PM.

22nd February 2012, 07:26 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hola, Cerjak: Tengo mas dudas que certezas.....Me parece que es una falsificación, o al menos, un trabuco al que se le ha agregado leyendas. YORK MAIL está punzonado con punzones completos,(cada letra) cuando lo habitual era que se fuera armando con punzones simples. Lo mismo para la inscripción HIS MAJESTIES MAIL, cuando lo habitual era HAPPY HE HE ESCAPES ME. El punzón que imita al punzón del Banco de Pruebas (London o Birmingham) no creo que perteneciera a un arma oficial, de la corona.... Es solo una opinión Afectuosamente. Fernando K Hello, Cerjak: I have more doubts than certainties ..... I think it's a fake, or at least, a blunderbuss where inscriptions were added. YORK MAIL is stamped with loose punctions when it was usual to engrave continuous lettering. Same for the inscription HIS MAJESTIES MAIL, contrary to the usual HAPPY HE ESCAPES ME. The punction that imitates the Proof house marks (London or Birmingham), i do not think it belonged to an official crown gun .... It's just an opinion Affectionately. Fernando K Last edited by fernando; 22nd February 2012 at 07:50 PM.

22nd February 2012, 10:23 PM	#6
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	See this other link it is old English ? http://www.bl.uk/learning/histcitize...t/reasons.html

22nd February 2012, 07:56 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	... And i am no linguist but, i guess it should be either His Majesty or Their Majesties, right ? Probably the phrase was not written by an english speaking person ? A nice blunderbuss, in any case

22nd February 2012, 07:57 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	... And the lock doesn't have the slightest mark

22nd February 2012, 10:45 PM	#7
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Yes, you are right. It is old english for the possessive case; in the new morphology the ' replaced the e.

22nd February 2012, 11:17 PM	#8
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Interesting piece Fernando, The font used on the end of the muzle, bieng totaly sans serif dates post late 1870s when it first started to be used, as far as my observations have taken me. {other than on fake markings of course.} {But such font was still rare untill the 20th century.}.} The "perhaps" older font used on top of the barrel is clearly done with individual stamps, i have no evidence otherwise for york mail but as the average wood worker could afford stamps cut by an engineer of there entire name, I suspect York Mail could as well. {Especialy as many such stamps were actualy made in Sheffield, Yorkshire.} I vote XXI century For the markings, I am not capable of dating the piece itself. Spiral