Keris and Hantus

purwacarita · 19th August 2005, 03:06 PM

Hi, I understand that supranatural things are hardly accepted by most non native users of keris. I found my keris responded to Coggins, but the picture of it is an empty chair with color circle. Any help?

nechesh · 19th August 2005, 03:37 PM

Hi Purwacarita. I don't think it is so much that non-natives don't accept the supranatural (although certainly many don't

) as much as there is a lack of acceptance for the Coggins method as a reliable way of measuring such phenomenon. In my experience, true spiritual phenomenon cannot me put into words nor measured accurately by any known mechanical device. Does that mean it isn't there? I KNOW in my inner being that the "supranatural" things i have experienced in my lifetime are as real as anything else in this world. Attempts to prove them by scientific method are often frustrating and futile. What's more, in IMO, they are absolutely unnecessary. I know what i know and have no need to prove it to others. The "Amazing" Randi can keep his million dollar prize.

Ian · 19th August 2005, 07:59 PM

Boedhi Adhitya:

Thank you for such an enlightening perspective on the keris and its mystical properties, and for your personal thoughts. Your comments fill in a lot of gaps for me, and help explain the confusing and often contradictory comments I have heard over the years.

Ian.

purwacarita · 21st August 2005, 02:50 AM

Hi nechesh, When Ambalat crisis was happening, young people of Indonesia from many regions volunteered to civil patriotic gathering to side by side with the military defend the integrity of country. Television news programs showed how those youngsters were not even experienced and started their first semi military and both external and internal martial arts training. What surprised me is, (not really though), that the trainers from different regions were taped having similar demonstrations how their trainee's skin and tongue could not be breached by blade. Real new bee patriot trained to be instant suicidal immortal warrior in a few days as fast as how noodle is now instantly served in a minute.

Taking this fact back deep into history when bullets and bombs were superstitious though many more people already mastered invulnerable skin martial art, my imagination flew far into empu's twilight forgeries when they accomplished keris inhabited by force supposed to breach the skin as the only way out to save their communities in case sort warriors were proven a threat and a fight was not avoidable. Such keris called pertimi in Bali and never used in Barong Dance.

This theory explains historical manuscripts about young children of the past carried keris in their fashion. Not as piandel to magically support the bearer to attain greater positive virtues like courage, prowess, dignity etc which when overdosed might be misused by rhino skin people to start unnecessary fight to exercise their almighiness show off where is most cases of the youth, I think, but rather as a remark of remembrance that thicker skin of higher internal martial arts was still breach able. This in like an education to the young at that time to help them develop their positive virtues by overcoming the fear of still vulnerable rhino skin over theirs over keris, and followed righteous spiritual way of living.

In time people foud that mysterious energy of keris had influences to social life, till todays. Many people still believe that keris could magically help the bearer to have higher social or political status, higher business transaction frequencies, or become more charismatic or gentle, ... then tip the balance with greed well fed and need a little counterweight. Keris is sure can magically do those maybe, or is really a doorway to some spiritual dimensions or inhabited by souls perhaps ...but Balinese maintains pertimi proves that inhabited exotic force is always checking out, ...and without proper precautions what remains is usually nothing but spirit of astounding greed. And so there is terminology called dimaharkan or dimaskawinkan to hand over the keris to someone else to prevent the energy loss in return of favour condition. Well, I think of hundreds of reason of mahar, above is only the first one. The second one is money, the third one is money, ...100th is money. I have a friend whose father is sometimes awarded with keris as symbol of honor and gratitute after he donated to spiritual institutions. His keris is not many but none likely found in any bird markets. A good mahar and could be gurindam to deliver patriotic messages to other Indonesia leaders and former ones, you think you're nationalists, huh? Next year do come to Upacara Bendera in my place as I invite you to Independence Anniversary or otherwise I'll give you more frightening keris and please save people from your rhino skin. Or you may give me yours instead incase I forget to invite you.

~IBS

19th August 2005, 03:06 PM	#1
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi, I understand that supranatural things are hardly accepted by most non native users of keris. I found my keris responded to Coggins, but the picture of it is an empty chair with color circle. Any help?

19th August 2005, 03:37 PM	#2
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hi Purwacarita. I don't think it is so much that non-natives don't accept the supranatural (although certainly many don't ) as much as there is a lack of acceptance for the Coggins method as a reliable way of measuring such phenomenon. In my experience, true spiritual phenomenon cannot me put into words nor measured accurately by any known mechanical device. Does that mean it isn't there? I KNOW in my inner being that the "supranatural" things i have experienced in my lifetime are as real as anything else in this world. Attempts to prove them by scientific method are often frustrating and futile. What's more, in IMO, they are absolutely unnecessary. I know what i know and have no need to prove it to others. The "Amazing" Randi can keep his million dollar prize.

19th August 2005, 07:59 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,453	Boedhi Adhitya: Thank you for such an enlightening perspective on the keris and its mystical properties, and for your personal thoughts. Your comments fill in a lot of gaps for me, and help explain the confusing and often contradictory comments I have heard over the years. Ian.

21st August 2005, 02:50 AM	#4
purwacarita Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 54	Hi nechesh, When Ambalat crisis was happening, young people of Indonesia from many regions volunteered to civil patriotic gathering to side by side with the military defend the integrity of country. Television news programs showed how those youngsters were not even experienced and started their first semi military and both external and internal martial arts training. What surprised me is, (not really though), that the trainers from different regions were taped having similar demonstrations how their trainee's skin and tongue could not be breached by blade. Real new bee patriot trained to be instant suicidal immortal warrior in a few days as fast as how noodle is now instantly served in a minute. Taking this fact back deep into history when bullets and bombs were superstitious though many more people already mastered invulnerable skin martial art, my imagination flew far into empu's twilight forgeries when they accomplished keris inhabited by force supposed to breach the skin as the only way out to save their communities in case sort warriors were proven a threat and a fight was not avoidable. Such keris called pertimi in Bali and never used in Barong Dance. This theory explains historical manuscripts about young children of the past carried keris in their fashion. Not as piandel to magically support the bearer to attain greater positive virtues like courage, prowess, dignity etc which when overdosed might be misused by rhino skin people to start unnecessary fight to exercise their almighiness show off where is most cases of the youth, I think, but rather as a remark of remembrance that thicker skin of higher internal martial arts was still breach able. This in like an education to the young at that time to help them develop their positive virtues by overcoming the fear of still vulnerable rhino skin over theirs over keris, and followed righteous spiritual way of living. In time people foud that mysterious energy of keris had influences to social life, till todays. Many people still believe that keris could magically help the bearer to have higher social or political status, higher business transaction frequencies, or become more charismatic or gentle, ... then tip the balance with greed well fed and need a little counterweight. Keris is sure can magically do those maybe, or is really a doorway to some spiritual dimensions or inhabited by souls perhaps ...but Balinese maintains pertimi proves that inhabited exotic force is always checking out, ...and without proper precautions what remains is usually nothing but spirit of astounding greed. And so there is terminology called dimaharkan or dimaskawinkan to hand over the keris to someone else to prevent the energy loss in return of favour condition. Well, I think of hundreds of reason of mahar, above is only the first one. The second one is money, the third one is money, ...100th is money. I have a friend whose father is sometimes awarded with keris as symbol of honor and gratitute after he donated to spiritual institutions. His keris is not many but none likely found in any bird markets. A good mahar and could be gurindam to deliver patriotic messages to other Indonesia leaders and former ones, you think you're nationalists, huh? Next year do come to Upacara Bendera in my place as I invite you to Independence Anniversary or otherwise I'll give you more frightening keris and please save people from your rhino skin. Or you may give me yours instead incase I forget to invite you. ~IBS