Sirau and their use

KuKulzA28 · 25th December 2011, 04:10 PM

Perhaps it is unheard of, digging up an old old thread such as this...
But I'm also pretty curious about the method of use, and I don't think it's been answered.

But maybe the answer is looking at the ergonomics of the handle. There's 6 major ways to grip a knife if you think about it. They go something like this:

Forward grip, edge down
Forward grip, edge up
Reverse grip, edge out
Reverse grip, edge in
Pinch/palm/ricasso grip
Pistol grip for punch knives

From the look of it, it would seem to be awkward fighting with a Siraui in forward grip, edge up or down.

Maybe it was used in reverse grip, or ice-pick grip. Either edge-out and relying on slicing to get the job done..... Or perhaps a ricasso grip for stabs and horizontal slashes?

Perhaps someone who owns a Siraui can take it in hand and play with different grips to come to a more conclusive conclusion. Or perhaps speak to Gurus of Minangkabu silat...

David · 26th December 2011, 04:55 AM

hmmm....perhaps they are simply utility knives. From their shape and form and usual size (large ones can be found, but they are generally smaller blades) i don't get the impression that these are made to be fighting knives at all. Of course, any sharp edge in a jam i suppose, but i wouldn't search too long or hard for some kind of martial art form attached to these blades...

Gavin Nugent · 26th December 2011, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

hmmm....perhaps they are simply utility knives. From their shape and form and usual size (large ones can be found, but they are generally smaller blades) i don't get the impression that these are made to be fighting knives at all. Of course, any sharp edge in a jam i suppose, but i wouldn't search too long or hard for some kind of martial art form attached to these blades...

I too tend to think they are utility knives or were originally. To me they have a feel of a very quick and easy rice cutter with good ergonomics, however like all utility items, I am sure they have at one time or another been used for other needs and likely saw some martial development at some time

From the one with me, there is only one grip that feels comfortable or natural and that is the pommel in the palm of my hand and my thumb and forefinger gripping the forte. It is a strong grip that offers the point at mid knuckle level and seems very capable of deep puncture. A back hand would rip the skin deep as the point is very robust but it is a rip as there is no edge on the inisde as is known. Should you end up behind someone, drawn across the throat is game over, the power of the grip and curve of the blade would show no remorse.

Zonneveld refer to Fischer 1918, does Fischers work/s nominate any further details?

VVV · 26th December 2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Zonneveld refer to Fischer 1918, does Fischers work/s nominate any further details?

Gavin, if you give me the exact reference I can maybe look it up. I am traveling so I don't have van Z with me but I do have a copy of Fischer on my computer.
The Siraui is a utility knife and with small adaptions (like the way the knife is shifted in for instance Silat Bondawasa, for those of you who have trained with Uncle Bill) all the 6 listed grips are possible. I suspect that they were intended to be used, utility-wise, in a forward grip with edge down.

Michael

Gavin Nugent · 27th December 2011, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Gavin, if you give me the exact reference I can maybe look it up. I am traveling so I don't have van Z with me but I do have a copy of Fischer on my computer.
The Siraui is a utility knife and with small adaptions (like the way the knife is shifted in for instance Silat Bondawasa, for those of you who have trained with Uncle Bill) all the 6 listed grips are possible. I suspect that they were intended to be used, utility-wise, in a forward grip with edge down.

Michael

Michael, no exact reference is given other than the date

I am not familiar with the art of or grips of the Siraui, perhaps someone can show this style of knife in these grips

Gavin

David · 27th December 2011, 10:48 PM

It seems to me that the grip would be somewhat determined by what task you were applying the utility knife to....

Lew · 27th December 2011, 11:06 PM

The only way to really use this style knife is pistol type forward grip edge up. Any other grip would seem too awkward to me.

25th December 2011, 04:10 PM	#1
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Perhaps it is unheard of, digging up an old old thread such as this... But I'm also pretty curious about the method of use, and I don't think it's been answered. But maybe the answer is looking at the ergonomics of the handle. There's 6 major ways to grip a knife if you think about it. They go something like this: Forward grip, edge down Forward grip, edge up Reverse grip, edge out Reverse grip, edge in Pinch/palm/ricasso grip Pistol grip for punch knives From the look of it, it would seem to be awkward fighting with a Siraui in forward grip, edge up or down. Maybe it was used in reverse grip, or ice-pick grip. Either edge-out and relying on slicing to get the job done..... Or perhaps a ricasso grip for stabs and horizontal slashes? Perhaps someone who owns a Siraui can take it in hand and play with different grips to come to a more conclusive conclusion. Or perhaps speak to Gurus of Minangkabu silat... Last edited by KuKulzA28; 25th December 2011 at 06:54 PM.

26th December 2011, 04:55 AM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	hmmm....perhaps they are simply utility knives. From their shape and form and usual size (large ones can be found, but they are generally smaller blades) i don't get the impression that these are made to be fighting knives at all. Of course, any sharp edge in a jam i suppose, but i wouldn't search too long or hard for some kind of martial art form attached to these blades...

27th December 2011, 10:48 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	It seems to me that the grip would be somewhat determined by what task you were applying the utility knife to....

27th December 2011, 11:06 PM	#7
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	The only way to really use this style knife is pistol type forward grip edge up. Any other grip would seem too awkward to me.