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|  7th December 2011, 11:00 AM | #40 | 
| Member Join Date: Jun 2006 
					Posts: 161
				 |  Agree. 
			
			You are correct.  Those bars and colors of the basic "blazon" are always present.  The shield shape changed over time with the general practice of the heralds.   The following well-known book shows an earlier shield type that matches the shield shape on the hackbut. The book states that this earlier shape which I call the "coffee cup" was used only from 1470-1525, as I recall on page 72 or nearby. Author: Ottfried Neubecker Title: "Heraldry; Sources, Symbols, and Meaning" Price: US$ 4.06 Book Description: 288 pp., folding plate, hardcover, very good in a very good dust jacket | 
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