Balinese Keris For Comment

Boedhi Adhitya · 5th August 2005, 05:05 AM

Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles

Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come

Be prepare and.. good luck !

The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art.
But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at.

In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought

best regards

Rick · 6th August 2005, 03:56 AM

Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU .

Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris .

Lew · 6th August 2005, 05:27 AM

Rick

It's stunning! Were did you get that hilt?

Lew

John · 6th August 2005, 05:51 AM

Beautiful piece Rick. Also have been told the Kocet kocetan was only allowed (?) for the priests in Bali (brahmin caste) once upon a time athough it has been unclear to me why or how so. If anyone know?

nechesh · 6th August 2005, 01:33 PM

Nice hilt Rick. Is that horn with the ivory or ebony? I wouldn't mind seeing some close-ups of your blade.
Mans, the pamor on your example is very intricate and interesting, but there isn't much chance of mistaking it for Balinese work. Both the dapur and the pamor don't seem right for a Balinese piece. Only the dress appears Balinese and even there they used the wrong mendak.
As i'm sure you know Rick, i don't really have a problem with Madurese perfecting Balinese type blades as long as they are not passed off as the real deal. The problem, of course, is that once they leave the smith there is little control as to how they will be presented to the collecting public. But clearly it is these Madurese smith and i believe a few in Jawa who are keeping the art alive. Sadly, it is doubtful that the very few empus that are left will be able to keep that level of keris making alive for very much longer.

I don't think this necessarily means an end to high quality keris making, but it may mean an end to the keris as a true cultural and spiritual object.

Rick · 6th August 2005, 02:35 PM

Hi Lew,
I'd rather not say where the hilt was purchased .

We can discuss it via PM though .

John , here's a little information I gleaned from Google about Kocet kocetan .
http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/ke...ris_gal02.html

Nechesh , it's ebony .
I do agree with you about the loss of the x factor in the new pieces .

On the other hand couldn't a 'talent' (practioner of majik) imbue the new keris with an x factor himself ?
I'll try to get another picture in this post of the pamor ; it is chatoyant .

Finally , yes the auction pictures were barely adequate .

Pamor close up added :

nechesh · 10th August 2005, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I do agree with you about the loss of the x factor in the new pieces .

On the other hand couldn't a 'talent' (practioner of majik) imbue the new keris with an x factor himself ?
I'll try to get another picture in this post of the pamor ; it is chatoyant .
:

In a word Rick, ABSOLUTELY! But if i told you how i would have to kill you.

BluErf · 9th August 2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU .

Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris .

Hi Rick,

Its a nice keris. I especially like the graceful curl of the kembang kacang and the way the jalen underneath stretches out, almost like an elephant's lips opening to receive something from the trunk.

I have been noticing kerises with a 'look' that's similar to this piece, appearing on ebay and other auction houses recently. Very interesting observation is that the pamor lines are the 'thin' sort, not the 'thick' sort I usually see. The luks also look similar - shallow, stretched out, and quite equidistant from base to tip; not quite the sort seen in the books. Finally, the sheaths on these kerises also have a similar 'look'. I can only clumsily describe it as broader vertically, but more compact horizontally. And the wood -- usually not kayu pelet.

I wonder if this sort of kerises comes from E Java instead (ok, its a guess)? Presumably E Javanese kerises have significant influences from Balinese/Lombok kerises, but still retaining some special characteristics of their own?

BluErf · 9th August 2005, 03:12 PM

Btw, I thought Rick's keris has a level higher of artistry than typical Madurese work, and the sheath is made from different materials usually seen on Madurese work, hence, I thought there may be another centre of keris crafting near Bali/Lombok that is producing these Balinese kerises. Somewhere on Easterb Java seems likely. Of course, I could be mistaken. There could be a village on Madura specialising in Balinese kerises, and they use different wood from the villages making Javanese kerises. But anyhow, just compare Rick's keris with Mans' keris, and you can see some difference in style already.

Madura or another centre of keris crafting?

One more point -- Rick's keris is more 'fine-boned' than the Balinese kerises I've seen. Not in terms of finese of work, but it has this compact feel, like something between a Javanese keris and a Balinese keris.

See below for examples of 'thick-lined' pamors on Balinese/Lombok kerises I have.

Rick · 9th August 2005, 03:37 PM

Hi Guys ,

First , I think Lew's example is every bit as nice as mine .
I think it's the hilt that may set them apart .

All of these kerisses have been offered by the same Seller on ebay .
He is a Californian , and if IRC spent time in Madura , E.Jawa , Bali and Lombok . He did not state where he bought the kerisses but he did say that he bought a great amount of tombaks while visiting Madura .

The workmanship on all these pieces is as you say quite good for contemporary work although a little lacking on final finish , and in my case scabbard fit . I would suspect that they all were acquired from the same native source .

There are also certain aspects to these keris that remind me of early work from Bantam , W. Jawa .

6th August 2005, 03:56 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU . Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 7th August 2005 at 02:55 AM.

6th August 2005, 02:35 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Hi Lew, I'd rather not say where the hilt was purchased . We can discuss it via PM though . John , here's a little information I gleaned from Google about Kocet kocetan . http://www.nikhef.nl/~tonvr/keris/ke...ris_gal02.html Nechesh , it's ebony . I do agree with you about the loss of the x factor in the new pieces . On the other hand couldn't a 'talent' (practioner of majik) imbue the new keris with an x factor himself ? I'll try to get another picture in this post of the pamor ; it is chatoyant . Finally , yes the auction pictures were barely adequate . Pamor close up added : Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 7th August 2005 at 02:57 AM.

9th August 2005, 03:12 PM	#9
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Btw, I thought Rick's keris has a level higher of artistry than typical Madurese work, and the sheath is made from different materials usually seen on Madurese work, hence, I thought there may be another centre of keris crafting near Bali/Lombok that is producing these Balinese kerises. Somewhere on Easterb Java seems likely. Of course, I could be mistaken. There could be a village on Madura specialising in Balinese kerises, and they use different wood from the villages making Javanese kerises. But anyhow, just compare Rick's keris with Mans' keris, and you can see some difference in style already. Madura or another centre of keris crafting? One more point -- Rick's keris is more 'fine-boned' than the Balinese kerises I've seen. Not in terms of finese of work, but it has this compact feel, like something between a Javanese keris and a Balinese keris. See below for examples of 'thick-lined' pamors on Balinese/Lombok kerises I have. Attached Images

5th August 2005, 05:05 AM	#1
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come Be prepare and.. good luck ! The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art. But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at. In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought best regards

6th August 2005, 05:27 AM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rick It's stunning! Were did you get that hilt? Lew

6th August 2005, 05:51 AM	#4
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Beautiful piece Rick. Also have been told the Kocet kocetan was only allowed (?) for the priests in Bali (brahmin caste) once upon a time athough it has been unclear to me why or how so. If anyone know?

6th August 2005, 01:33 PM	#5
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Nice hilt Rick. Is that horn with the ivory or ebony? I wouldn't mind seeing some close-ups of your blade. Mans, the pamor on your example is very intricate and interesting, but there isn't much chance of mistaking it for Balinese work. Both the dapur and the pamor don't seem right for a Balinese piece. Only the dress appears Balinese and even there they used the wrong mendak. As i'm sure you know Rick, i don't really have a problem with Madurese perfecting Balinese type blades as long as they are not passed off as the real deal. The problem, of course, is that once they leave the smith there is little control as to how they will be presented to the collecting public. But clearly it is these Madurese smith and i believe a few in Jawa who are keeping the art alive. Sadly, it is doubtful that the very few empus that are left will be able to keep that level of keris making alive for very much longer. I don't think this necessarily means an end to high quality keris making, but it may mean an end to the keris as a true cultural and spiritual object.

9th August 2005, 03:37 PM	#10
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Hi Guys , First , I think Lew's example is every bit as nice as mine . I think it's the hilt that may set them apart . All of these kerisses have been offered by the same Seller on ebay . He is a Californian , and if IRC spent time in Madura , E.Jawa , Bali and Lombok . He did not state where he bought the kerisses but he did say that he bought a great amount of tombaks while visiting Madura . The workmanship on all these pieces is as you say quite good for contemporary work although a little lacking on final finish , and in my case scabbard fit . I would suspect that they all were acquired from the same native source . There are also certain aspects to these keris that remind me of early work from Bantam , W. Jawa .