18th century Gunners Stilleto?

Jim McDougall · 16th November 2011, 08:08 AM

Excellent points guys, and Ricks note on puncturing the powder bag is noted as a distinct use for the stilettos. The reference to numbering of cannon on ships is also well placed. I think these were typically like L4 for 4th position port and S 6 for 6th position starboard , in that fashion.
As Mark points out, there was a strong tendancy for tradition in the navy and often weapons remained in use long after ceasing in other circumstances.
Stu's note on the initials or letters seems interesting and it does seem possible that an N could be transposed over an R in ligature form , but as noted its hard to make out.
Mark, could these strange crenellations on the blade have anything to do with rigging? It seems boarding axes and knives etc. sometimes have notches or unusual features thought to relate to the arcane handling of these by seamen.
Still a gunners stiletto....but why not naval? It seems that many naval dirks are with unusually thin blades as well, though I dont presume they were used with the guns...just an observation .

fernando · 16th November 2011, 03:22 PM

If the number in the plate were to refer to a gun's number or its position in the vessel, that stylized monogram is not a good match; certainly not that of the dagger's owner, neither the initials of Royal Navy or the like. More plausible would be if they were the initials of the vessel's name ... but still.

On the other hand, if the monogram is that of the dagger's owner, then the digits would refer his number... either in the service ranks or aboard ship, like gunner # 43.

Noteworthy is the fact that the crenellations (per Jim) are only grooved in one of the dagger faces, not all round. Could this be to facilitate the breaking of the dagger's point, after plugging the cannon touch hole, to disable the enemy to take it off ?
... Just fantasies of mine

My guess on the monogram initials is; A (in bold, as the first), plus a B and a N ... or vice versa.

16th November 2011, 08:08 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,601	Excellent points guys, and Ricks note on puncturing the powder bag is noted as a distinct use for the stilettos. The reference to numbering of cannon on ships is also well placed. I think these were typically like L4 for 4th position port and S 6 for 6th position starboard , in that fashion. As Mark points out, there was a strong tendancy for tradition in the navy and often weapons remained in use long after ceasing in other circumstances. Stu's note on the initials or letters seems interesting and it does seem possible that an N could be transposed over an R in ligature form , but as noted its hard to make out. Mark, could these strange crenellations on the blade have anything to do with rigging? It seems boarding axes and knives etc. sometimes have notches or unusual features thought to relate to the arcane handling of these by seamen. Still a gunners stiletto....but why not naval? It seems that many naval dirks are with unusually thin blades as well, though I dont presume they were used with the guns...just an observation .

16th November 2011, 03:22 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	If the number in the plate were to refer to a gun's number or its position in the vessel, that stylized monogram is not a good match; certainly not that of the dagger's owner, neither the initials of Royal Navy or the like. More plausible would be if they were the initials of the vessel's name ... but still. On the other hand, if the monogram is that of the dagger's owner, then the digits would refer his number... either in the service ranks or aboard ship, like gunner # 43. Noteworthy is the fact that the crenellations (per Jim) are only grooved in one of the dagger faces, not all round. Could this be to facilitate the breaking of the dagger's point, after plugging the cannon touch hole, to disable the enemy to take it off ? ... Just fantasies of mine My guess on the monogram initials is; A (in bold, as the first), plus a B and a N ... or vice versa.