What happened with this blade?

Sajen · 13th November 2011, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

To do a weld of the technical difficulty required to place a small nickel patch onto an already very worn blade would be very, very difficult, most especially with the forge technology available in Jawa, either in previous times, or now.

I have got this keris from a person with great knowledge about keris and he has got it in Indonesia/Java like this. He also don't have had a explanation for it. I have some little understanding from my profession about metal and also in my eyes it seems very difficult to patch a small amount nickel on but what I can see happened exactly this. But I will try to take better pictures by daylight and hope that it is than to see what I see even that the pamor pool chipping from the iron and someone tried to repair it (at down it break again).

Thank you again,

Detlef

A. G. Maisey · 14th November 2011, 01:04 AM

If this keris was purchased recently in Indonesia, anything is possible.

With these better pics it is obvious that a weld such as this is something that would require the skill of Merlin.

I feel that the dreaded Alteco may be involved here.

Alteco is what is mostly used in Jawa as a super glue.

Alternatively, maybe they've not actually welded, but heated the blade as much as they dare, and then dropped a little bit of molten nickel onto it. I really hate some of the tricks these shysters get up to. If you've got an old blade, respect it, let it keep its integrity and don't screw around with it. Of course, the fault all lays with uneducated collectors:- they want more than is reasonable, so the gentlemen in Jawa will always try to give the buyers what they want. Its the old:- "buyer is always right" thing in action.

After that little tirade, there is another possibility, and it goes like this:- when the blade was originally welded the pamor material was broken, nor in a single paper-thin layer, but in several layers. One of these layers overlapped another and failed to weld --- you cannot weld nickel to nickel, you need the iron in between to act as glue --- this layer that did not stick would now run under one pool of pamor, and its edge would run over the edge of the other pool of pamor. This is a possibility, but then I can see the way that the iron adjacent to the "patch" has little bits of paleness to it, don't know what this is, but it doesn't look right.

I really do not know what has happened here, there are too many possibilities, and I don't like the sound of any of them. Speaking only for myself, I'd move this blade along by any means possible, and be prepared to take a loss on it.

GIO · 14th November 2011, 01:09 AM

It seems that one layer of iron, under the nickel alloy, got consumed because of repeated etchings.
I got the impression that also the entire pamor at the left of latest pics is about to detach.

14th November 2011, 01:04 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	If this keris was purchased recently in Indonesia, anything is possible. With these better pics it is obvious that a weld such as this is something that would require the skill of Merlin. I feel that the dreaded Alteco may be involved here. Alteco is what is mostly used in Jawa as a super glue. Alternatively, maybe they've not actually welded, but heated the blade as much as they dare, and then dropped a little bit of molten nickel onto it. I really hate some of the tricks these shysters get up to. If you've got an old blade, respect it, let it keep its integrity and don't screw around with it. Of course, the fault all lays with uneducated collectors:- they want more than is reasonable, so the gentlemen in Jawa will always try to give the buyers what they want. Its the old:- "buyer is always right" thing in action. After that little tirade, there is another possibility, and it goes like this:- when the blade was originally welded the pamor material was broken, nor in a single paper-thin layer, but in several layers. One of these layers overlapped another and failed to weld --- you cannot weld nickel to nickel, you need the iron in between to act as glue --- this layer that did not stick would now run under one pool of pamor, and its edge would run over the edge of the other pool of pamor. This is a possibility, but then I can see the way that the iron adjacent to the "patch" has little bits of paleness to it, don't know what this is, but it doesn't look right. I really do not know what has happened here, there are too many possibilities, and I don't like the sound of any of them. Speaking only for myself, I'd move this blade along by any means possible, and be prepared to take a loss on it. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 14th November 2011 at 01:19 AM.

14th November 2011, 01:09 AM	#3
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 329	It seems that one layer of iron, under the nickel alloy, got consumed because of repeated etchings. I got the impression that also the entire pamor at the left of latest pics is about to detach.