Balinese Keris For Comment

nechesh · 3rd August 2005, 01:39 PM

Hey Lew, like Rick's example from the same dealer, this one is also recent and not Balinese work. There are file marks on it that you would never find on Balinese pieces. It probably comes from Madura. I do agree that the workmanship is fairly nice on it.

Boedhi Adhitya · 4th August 2005, 06:34 AM

Hei Lew, I agree with Nechesh and Rick opinions. Your blade came from Madura, and a fairly nice piece too.
The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process. By doing so, their mastery in this art will be quite high. Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.

best regards.

nechesh · 4th August 2005, 12:28 PM

[QUOTE=Boedhi Adhitya] Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.
[QUOTE]

Give them time.....

Rick · 4th August 2005, 02:27 PM

I'll only be frowning if they're passed off as real Nechesh .

I am not aware of evidence of a resurgence of keris making in Bali and I love Bali pieces as I know you do .

We must be honest with ourselves ; the Madura bunch are the only ones really keeping keris making alive for us plebians who cannot dream of affording a high quality Jawa or Bali piece .

Much better to see the Maduran work approaching high standards than to see the art die out forever , no ?

Rick

Mans · 4th August 2005, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boedhi Adhitya

.... The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process.......
.... But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies.

best regards.

I posted another example of Maduranese keris in Balinese style with nice looks pamor pattern.

Rgds,
Mans.

Boedhi Adhitya · 5th August 2005, 05:05 AM

Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles

Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come

Be prepare and.. good luck !

The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art.
But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at.

In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought

best regards

Rick · 6th August 2005, 03:56 AM

Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU .

Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris .

Lew · 6th August 2005, 05:27 AM

Rick

It's stunning! Were did you get that hilt?

Lew

John · 6th August 2005, 05:51 AM

Beautiful piece Rick. Also have been told the Kocet kocetan was only allowed (?) for the priests in Bali (brahmin caste) once upon a time athough it has been unclear to me why or how so. If anyone know?

BluErf · 9th August 2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU .

Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris .

Hi Rick,

Its a nice keris. I especially like the graceful curl of the kembang kacang and the way the jalen underneath stretches out, almost like an elephant's lips opening to receive something from the trunk.

I have been noticing kerises with a 'look' that's similar to this piece, appearing on ebay and other auction houses recently. Very interesting observation is that the pamor lines are the 'thin' sort, not the 'thick' sort I usually see. The luks also look similar - shallow, stretched out, and quite equidistant from base to tip; not quite the sort seen in the books. Finally, the sheaths on these kerises also have a similar 'look'. I can only clumsily describe it as broader vertically, but more compact horizontally. And the wood -- usually not kayu pelet.

I wonder if this sort of kerises comes from E Java instead (ok, its a guess)? Presumably E Javanese kerises have significant influences from Balinese/Lombok kerises, but still retaining some special characteristics of their own?

BluErf · 9th August 2005, 03:12 PM

Btw, I thought Rick's keris has a level higher of artistry than typical Madurese work, and the sheath is made from different materials usually seen on Madurese work, hence, I thought there may be another centre of keris crafting near Bali/Lombok that is producing these Balinese kerises. Somewhere on Easterb Java seems likely. Of course, I could be mistaken. There could be a village on Madura specialising in Balinese kerises, and they use different wood from the villages making Javanese kerises. But anyhow, just compare Rick's keris with Mans' keris, and you can see some difference in style already.

Madura or another centre of keris crafting?

One more point -- Rick's keris is more 'fine-boned' than the Balinese kerises I've seen. Not in terms of finese of work, but it has this compact feel, like something between a Javanese keris and a Balinese keris.

See below for examples of 'thick-lined' pamors on Balinese/Lombok kerises I have.

6th August 2005, 03:56 AM	#7
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	Finally got up and running again , it only cost me a new CPU . Trying out a picture of my new Bali keris . Attached Images Last edited by Rick; 7th August 2005 at 02:55 AM.

9th August 2005, 03:12 PM	#11
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Btw, I thought Rick's keris has a level higher of artistry than typical Madurese work, and the sheath is made from different materials usually seen on Madurese work, hence, I thought there may be another centre of keris crafting near Bali/Lombok that is producing these Balinese kerises. Somewhere on Easterb Java seems likely. Of course, I could be mistaken. There could be a village on Madura specialising in Balinese kerises, and they use different wood from the villages making Javanese kerises. But anyhow, just compare Rick's keris with Mans' keris, and you can see some difference in style already. Madura or another centre of keris crafting? One more point -- Rick's keris is more 'fine-boned' than the Balinese kerises I've seen. Not in terms of finese of work, but it has this compact feel, like something between a Javanese keris and a Balinese keris. See below for examples of 'thick-lined' pamors on Balinese/Lombok kerises I have. Attached Images

3rd August 2005, 01:39 PM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Lew, like Rick's example from the same dealer, this one is also recent and not Balinese work. There are file marks on it that you would never find on Balinese pieces. It probably comes from Madura. I do agree that the workmanship is fairly nice on it.

4th August 2005, 06:34 AM	#2
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Hei Lew, I agree with Nechesh and Rick opinions. Your blade came from Madura, and a fairly nice piece too. The Madura makers have fairly advanced today. Some of them have became specialists, only doing the cold working or only work on the forging process. By doing so, their mastery in this art will be quite high. Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies. best regards.

4th August 2005, 12:28 PM	#3
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	[QUOTE=Boedhi Adhitya] Today first-class work of Madura would almost 100% identic with the Java nem-neman works, from late 19 - early 20 c. But for the Bali style, well, it is probably not that good and still easily identifies. [QUOTE] Give them time.....

4th August 2005, 02:27 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	I'll only be frowning if they're passed off as real Nechesh . I am not aware of evidence of a resurgence of keris making in Bali and I love Bali pieces as I know you do . We must be honest with ourselves ; the Madura bunch are the only ones really keeping keris making alive for us plebians who cannot dream of affording a high quality Jawa or Bali piece . Much better to see the Maduran work approaching high standards than to see the art die out forever , no ? Rick

5th August 2005, 05:05 AM	#6
Boedhi Adhitya Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 103	Well, that's a good Bali-style blade, Mans ! I'm inexperience in Bali blades, but if only The Maduras work on watermelon-skin pamor and polish the blade (sangling) like most Balinesse do, most of all would be in troubles Nechesh, I regret that the time seems has almost, if not already, come Be prepare and.. good luck ! The new kerises has also been becoming my concern. There is a confusion in Java on how to treat this new breed. In spite of growing acceptance, most Javanese (and other Indonesian) still treating kerises more than just an art. But in the end, we have to ask ourselves, what we are really looking at. In case of Bali blades, if the Madura smiths move to Bali, perhaps the acceptance would be higher, since the blades is really "made in Bali", it would not be felt as a "Rolex made in China". Just my speculative thought best regards

6th August 2005, 05:27 AM	#8
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Rick It's stunning! Were did you get that hilt? Lew

6th August 2005, 05:51 AM	#9
John Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Land below the wind Posts: 135	Beautiful piece Rick. Also have been told the Kocet kocetan was only allowed (?) for the priests in Bali (brahmin caste) once upon a time athough it has been unclear to me why or how so. If anyone know?