Handgonne from Otepaa. Estonia

Spiridonov · 9th November 2011, 06:56 PM

I am still thinking about this barrel. You have given a tentative date as 1440-50. So how he was able to get under the ruins if castle has been destroyed in 1396 year?...

Matchlock · 10th November 2011, 02:06 PM

Hi Alexander,

I guess this was for a similar same reason as the famous Tannenberg gun was found in a well belonging to the ruins of a castle destroyed in 1399.

Just because a certain place was destroyed in a certain year, the possibility that some decades later somebody came by those ruins and probably tried to explore them cannot be a priori excluded. Then it might have been the case that our visitor either stumbled and fell, the handgonne falling deep down under the ruins, or that he was surprised by somebody else and lost his gun in combat.

Anyway, there is no doubt that both the Tannenberg gun and the Otepää gun were actually not made before the first half of the 15th century, ca. 1420-30 by the earliest, as I pointed out in a former post. So how it came they were both found between earlier ruins is completely left to speculation - dissatisfying as it may be.

Best,
Michael

Spiridonov · 22nd January 2012, 09:31 PM

Weapons in Otepaa castle
http://michael-engel.io.ua/album323940

cannonmn · 23rd January 2012, 12:15 AM

Are there more photos of the excavated piece than the one I see? I'd need many more photos, close up, to get an idea of the beast under consideration. I wouldn't have such a big problem with it if it only had one departure from "conventional" contemporary gun design, but the fact that it has several significant differences causes its identification as any kind of a gun to be somewhat suspect. It reminds me somewhat of the strange industrial residue that is being offerred on Ebay these days as "nine hole cannons" or whatever.

Spiridonov · 23rd January 2012, 05:22 PM

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/co...nne_700kW.html

cannonmn · 23rd January 2012, 06:35 PM

Thanks, I watched most of the video, containing only a few seconds showing the excavated material at around the 5 minute mark. I'd certainly like to see much more detail of the fragments found. I think one could assemble them in such a fashion as to make what resembles a stopcock, or arrange them a bit differently to resemble a gate latch, or a waterspout for a fountain.

Paddy T. · 29th July 2018, 09:36 PM

There are new informations about the excarvations in Otepää since a few years. In fact the terminus ante quem of 1396 can´t be sustained any longer. Finds of coins and pottery suggest a decline of the castle in the first half of the 15th century, so the gun maybe dates within this period, too.

9th November 2011, 06:56 PM	#1
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	I am still thinking about this barrel. You have given a tentative date as 1440-50. So how he was able to get under the ruins if castle has been destroyed in 1396 year?...

10th November 2011, 02:06 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Alexander, I guess this was for a similar same reason as the famous Tannenberg gun was found in a well belonging to the ruins of a castle destroyed in 1399. Just because a certain place was destroyed in a certain year, the possibility that some decades later somebody came by those ruins and probably tried to explore them cannot be a priori excluded. Then it might have been the case that our visitor either stumbled and fell, the handgonne falling deep down under the ruins, or that he was surprised by somebody else and lost his gun in combat. Anyway, there is no doubt that both the Tannenberg gun and the Otepää gun were actually not made before the first half of the 15th century, ca. 1420-30 by the earliest, as I pointed out in a former post. So how it came they were both found between earlier ruins is completely left to speculation - dissatisfying as it may be. Best, Michael

22nd January 2012, 09:31 PM	#3
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	Weapons in Otepaa castle http://michael-engel.io.ua/album323940

23rd January 2012, 12:15 AM	#4
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Are there more photos of the excavated piece than the one I see? I'd need many more photos, close up, to get an idea of the beast under consideration. I wouldn't have such a big problem with it if it only had one departure from "conventional" contemporary gun design, but the fact that it has several significant differences causes its identification as any kind of a gun to be somewhat suspect. It reminds me somewhat of the strange industrial residue that is being offerred on Ebay these days as "nine hole cannons" or whatever.

23rd January 2012, 05:22 PM	#5
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	http://www.archaeologychannel.org/co...nne_700kW.html

23rd January 2012, 06:35 PM	#6
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	Thanks, I watched most of the video, containing only a few seconds showing the excavated material at around the 5 minute mark. I'd certainly like to see much more detail of the fragments found. I think one could assemble them in such a fashion as to make what resembles a stopcock, or arrange them a bit differently to resemble a gate latch, or a waterspout for a fountain.

29th July 2018, 09:36 PM	#7
Paddy T. Member Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: Germany Posts: 13	There are new informations about the excarvations in Otepää since a few years. In fact the terminus ante quem of 1396 can´t be sustained any longer. Finds of coins and pottery suggest a decline of the castle in the first half of the 15th century, so the gun maybe dates within this period, too.