Polish L-guard sword: restoration project

Ypoznan · 7th October 2011, 10:40 PM

Hello again. At the beginning I apologize for the delay in showing to my answer. Unfortunately, as a new member of the forum I have to wait until a moderator approves them. Surely you know these rules so please bear with me.

Overall, I thank you for your kind words on my part about Navajas. It's a lot to me. I'm very glad that you like.

@broadaxe
Very interesting article, congratulations. You can see that you put a lot of work into it.

I do not know how to translate from Hebrew to Polish is right but I saw some details that in the light of my knowledge may be controversial. Let me specify comments.

- Most supplementation of the date of creation is a breakthrough classic Navajas seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. However, in the development of Rafael Martinez de Peral y Forton "Las Navajas. Un Estudio y una Colección. "I found the information that in Mexico, already in 1590, in Pueblo de Los Angeles artist producing work Navajas. Cuchillero this came to the New World from Spain. This shows that even before this year in Spain acted Cuchilleros producing Navajas.
-Not all classic Navajas had bent handle, but actually it is a characteristic feature of these knives. There were many Navajas with straight handles, such as Navaja Marinera.
-Most Navajas, especially in the nineteenth century did not have a lock or lock type de piston or de Varilla - something similar to slipjoint. This was a consequence penal provisions. System "carraca" was popular but not universal.
- On the second picture is visible Navaja coming from France. Very characteristic for the Creators of Thiers. This is not a Spanish Navaja. On the third picture we see the French Navaja. Brand suggesting that comes with Zaragoza is false. Probably also comes with Thiers.

Very sorry if you misunderstood the content of your text. The translation is terrible. I hope you do not feel offended by my comments. Of course I do not consider myself an expert - I am only a hobbyist.

@Jim McDougall
I will try to post some more information about these types of sabers, and can picture (if I find), but please a little patience. For now, I do not see the preview of my message and they must be approved. How do I pass my probationary period to supplement the data. In the course of my ability.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Janusz

broadaxe · 8th October 2011, 01:38 PM

Janusz, I'm not offended at all. My article was a side-effect caused by preparation for two seperate exhibitions, each held 2-3 navajas, and a demand from me to submit a simple article, not in-depth, for the general art-loving public. I had the opportunity to check the items in photos in person. Navajas are not my field of expertise nor a hobby, just a point of interest in the vast ocean of arms & armor. I hope to see posts from you regarding this field in other threads, let's keep this one with the Polish saber.

Gavin Nugent · 8th October 2011, 02:02 PM

Below is a stunning little 7" x 9" water colour in my collections.

I understand the artist is French and it is signed and dated from the start of the 19th century. Note the 'L' guard type sabre hung from the middle horseman.

The image is a little out of focus. When I have it returned from the gent who is conserving/cleaning it for me I'll try to show a little more detail on the sword.

I suspect at face value they are Polish or Lithuanian Tatars though I am sure artistic license abounds....feel free to correct my attribution.

Gav

Ypoznan · 9th October 2011, 08:41 AM

@broadaxe
Of course you're right. Let us return to the topic saber.

I would like to show you some pictures that show this type of sword. Photos come from the books and topics dealing with the Polish sword, therefore, are images that show has just Polish sabers. The information that I could find say that the sword such as used in both infantry and cavalry (hussars, even).

In the typology of penetrating marked influence each other and the formation of specific types of swords. In the middle window shows Polish uniforms (Polska), "Wschód" = east, "Zachód" = west.

Image is a replica saber hilt by Andrzej Mikiciuk. Drawings and typology of the books: Włodzimierz Kwaśniewicz "1000 słów o broni białej i uzbrojeniu ochronnym" (1000 words with melee weapons and protective armor) and Wojciech Zabłocki, "Cięcia prawdziwą szablą " (Cuts a real sword). Drawings showing the Polish infantry from the seventeenth century and the Polish nobleman found on the web.

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2011, 08:40 PM

Thank you so much Janusz for the outstanding detail in illustrations, and especially for citing the sources, something too often overlooked in contributions. Extremely impressive reproduction example posted, and my compliments on your text, knowing you are using a translator I can appreciate the extra effort in the dramatic syntax improvement.

All very best regards,
Jim

Ypoznan · 9th October 2011, 10:26 PM

Hi Jim

I just hope that my text is at least partly understandable. Unfortunately, the same I can not check.

broadaxe · 9th October 2011, 11:49 PM

Here is an old thread, close to the subject: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=759
And from another forum: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...er=asc&start=0

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...er=asc&start=0

Ypoznan · 10th October 2011, 02:47 AM

Szabla husarska (Hussar Saber) is without a doubt the queen of Polish sabers! Beautiful and highly functional. Besides an excellent weapon. But the most I like the final version, with the handle closed.
Great articles and texts. Thank you.

Ps. And if you liked my article about this sword? I'm curious opinion.

8th October 2011, 02:02 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Below is a stunning little 7" x 9" water colour in my collections. I understand the artist is French and it is signed and dated from the start of the 19th century. Note the 'L' guard type sabre hung from the middle horseman. The image is a little out of focus. When I have it returned from the gent who is conserving/cleaning it for me I'll try to show a little more detail on the sword. I suspect at face value they are Polish or Lithuanian Tatars though I am sure artistic license abounds....feel free to correct my attribution. Gav Attached Images

9th October 2011, 08:41 AM	#4
Ypoznan Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Poznan, Poland Posts: 16	@broadaxe Of course you're right. Let us return to the topic saber. I would like to show you some pictures that show this type of sword. Photos come from the books and topics dealing with the Polish sword, therefore, are images that show has just Polish sabers. The information that I could find say that the sword such as used in both infantry and cavalry (hussars, even). In the typology of penetrating marked influence each other and the formation of specific types of swords. In the middle window shows Polish uniforms (Polska), "Wschód" = east, "Zachód" = west. Image is a replica saber hilt by Andrzej Mikiciuk. Drawings and typology of the books: Włodzimierz Kwaśniewicz "1000 słów o broni białej i uzbrojeniu ochronnym" (1000 words with melee weapons and protective armor) and Wojciech Zabłocki, "Cięcia prawdziwą szablą " (Cuts a real sword). Drawings showing the Polish infantry from the seventeenth century and the Polish nobleman found on the web. Attached Images

7th October 2011, 10:40 PM	#1
Ypoznan Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Poznan, Poland Posts: 16	Hello again. At the beginning I apologize for the delay in showing to my answer. Unfortunately, as a new member of the forum I have to wait until a moderator approves them. Surely you know these rules so please bear with me. Overall, I thank you for your kind words on my part about Navajas. It's a lot to me. I'm very glad that you like. @broadaxe Very interesting article, congratulations. You can see that you put a lot of work into it. I do not know how to translate from Hebrew to Polish is right but I saw some details that in the light of my knowledge may be controversial. Let me specify comments. - Most supplementation of the date of creation is a breakthrough classic Navajas seventeenth and eighteenth centuries. However, in the development of Rafael Martinez de Peral y Forton "Las Navajas. Un Estudio y una Colección. "I found the information that in Mexico, already in 1590, in Pueblo de Los Angeles artist producing work Navajas. Cuchillero this came to the New World from Spain. This shows that even before this year in Spain acted Cuchilleros producing Navajas. -Not all classic Navajas had bent handle, but actually it is a characteristic feature of these knives. There were many Navajas with straight handles, such as Navaja Marinera. -Most Navajas, especially in the nineteenth century did not have a lock or lock type de piston or de Varilla - something similar to slipjoint. This was a consequence penal provisions. System "carraca" was popular but not universal. - On the second picture is visible Navaja coming from France. Very characteristic for the Creators of Thiers. This is not a Spanish Navaja. On the third picture we see the French Navaja. Brand suggesting that comes with Zaragoza is false. Probably also comes with Thiers. Very sorry if you misunderstood the content of your text. The translation is terrible. I hope you do not feel offended by my comments. Of course I do not consider myself an expert - I am only a hobbyist. @Jim McDougall I will try to post some more information about these types of sabers, and can picture (if I find), but please a little patience. For now, I do not see the preview of my message and they must be approved. How do I pass my probationary period to supplement the data. In the course of my ability. Thank you for the warm welcome. Janusz

8th October 2011, 01:38 PM	#2
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Janusz, I'm not offended at all. My article was a side-effect caused by preparation for two seperate exhibitions, each held 2-3 navajas, and a demand from me to submit a simple article, not in-depth, for the general art-loving public. I had the opportunity to check the items in photos in person. Navajas are not my field of expertise nor a hobby, just a point of interest in the vast ocean of arms & armor. I hope to see posts from you regarding this field in other threads, let's keep this one with the Polish saber.

9th October 2011, 08:40 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Thank you so much Janusz for the outstanding detail in illustrations, and especially for citing the sources, something too often overlooked in contributions. Extremely impressive reproduction example posted, and my compliments on your text, knowing you are using a translator I can appreciate the extra effort in the dramatic syntax improvement. All very best regards, Jim

9th October 2011, 10:26 PM	#6
Ypoznan Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Poznan, Poland Posts: 16	Hi Jim I just hope that my text is at least partly understandable. Unfortunately, the same I can not check.

9th October 2011, 11:49 PM	#7
broadaxe Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 334	Here is an old thread, close to the subject: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?p=759 And from another forum: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...er=asc&start=0 http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewto...er=asc&start=0

10th October 2011, 02:47 AM	#8
Ypoznan Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Poznan, Poland Posts: 16	Szabla husarska (Hussar Saber) is without a doubt the queen of Polish sabers! Beautiful and highly functional. Besides an excellent weapon. But the most I like the final version, with the handle closed. Great articles and texts. Thank you. Ps. And if you liked my article about this sword? I'm curious opinion.