There Will Be Piras

Battara · 18th September 2011, 09:53 PM

Congratulations - sounds like the real deal, especially with the "X" marks on the spine.

Rick · 19th September 2011, 12:27 AM

The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" .
Light = fast .
(Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher .

*Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 01:22 AM

I believe piras and barungs have always come in a variety of thicknesses and lengths. Hand forging steel is far from an exact process, and yes, lighter blades are of course faster, so the thickness might vary depending on the needs of the user and the materials the smith started with. I had the good fortune of handling dozens of well-made barungs and piras last week. While newer pieces (1940s up), there was quite a variety of blade thicknesses.

As for agricultural piras: I believe there have always been agricultural barungs, and I just picked up an interesting itak that resembles a pira (I bought it in Zamboanga, a stone's throw from Basilan). It also resembles a Malay parang lading to some extent. Definitely an interesting piece! I believe the smiths that crafted it are Tausug since they do turn out a lot of barungs (agricultural and combat use versions).

KuKulzA28 · 19th September 2011, 01:29 AM

Dave thats awesome! Hope you find the time to post up pictures soon!

harimauhk, I can't comment on Moro agricultural blades specifically, but don't the Visayan islands have their own barong which (at least today's examples) seem a lot more agricultural? They look almost like chubby garabs with a little more weight forward, but the barong's leaf-shape is present...

or maybe I am just getting confused..

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 01:37 AM

Hi Kuk,

Yes, there are agricultural barungs in the Central Visayas, but I believe that came about through cultural exchange between the Bangsamoro tribes and the Bisaya/Cebuano. BTW, I also picked up an agricultural barung crafted by the same Zamboanga smiths, and a karit (sickle) I saw used for slicing through banana stems.

It would definitely allay all doubt if someone had an antique version of an agricultural barung/pira, but I guess farm tools wouldn't be cared for and passed down in the same manner.

KuKulzA28 · 19th September 2011, 01:58 AM

Good points, as always thanks for contributing your knowledge! Let's guys like me learn up and get a little closer to knowing a thing or two about the Filipino and Moro weapons / martial history.

By the way... karit? Like... arit or clurit? Same type of word?

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 02:06 AM

Yes, arit, karit and celurit are all very close aren't they?

Karit is actually Tagalog--I'm not sure what they are called in Sulu. In Cebuano they are called sanggot or sanggut, and sangud is the term in Chavacano.

I'm still looking to add a celurit to the collection! I hope to explore more of Indonesia in the years to come.

ThePepperSkull · 19th September 2011, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" .
Light = fast .
(Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher .

*Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

Definitely. It's got a deep distal taper as well which also makes it feel lighter. I find that many SEA blades that are specifically made as weapons have a more profound distal tapering than the SEA blades intended for agriculture or general bushtool use, which have an almost uniform blade thickness.

harimauhk · 19th September 2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Definitely. It's got a deep distal taper as well which also makes it feel lighter. I find that many SEA blades that are specifically made as weapons have a more profound distal tapering than the SEA blades intended for agriculture or general bushtool use, which have an almost uniform blade thickness.

Dave, virtually all of the Filipino agricultural blades I've handled over the last two years have distal tapers: go figure! Interestingly, the two modern piras I picked up do not taper much.

ThePepperSkull · 20th September 2011, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by harimauhk

Dave, virtually all of the Filipino agricultural blades I've handled over the last two years have distal tapers: go figure! Interestingly, the two modern piras I picked up do not taper much.

d'oh! wrong again!

Yeah, my pira made in '92 has no distal taper either.

19th September 2011, 12:27 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	What's In A Name ? The laminated blade on my example is not all that thick at the forte; possibly 3/16" . Light = fast . (Combat)* Pira, (IMO) is a slasher . *Is there even a antique agricultural version ?

19th September 2011, 01:22 AM	#3
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	I believe piras and barungs have always come in a variety of thicknesses and lengths. Hand forging steel is far from an exact process, and yes, lighter blades are of course faster, so the thickness might vary depending on the needs of the user and the materials the smith started with. I had the good fortune of handling dozens of well-made barungs and piras last week. While newer pieces (1940s up), there was quite a variety of blade thicknesses. As for agricultural piras: I believe there have always been agricultural barungs, and I just picked up an interesting itak that resembles a pira (I bought it in Zamboanga, a stone's throw from Basilan). It also resembles a Malay parang lading to some extent. Definitely an interesting piece! I believe the smiths that crafted it are Tausug since they do turn out a lot of barungs (agricultural and combat use versions). Last edited by harimauhk; 19th September 2011 at 01:41 AM.

18th September 2011, 09:53 PM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,308	Congratulations - sounds like the real deal, especially with the "X" marks on the spine.

19th September 2011, 01:29 AM	#4
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Dave thats awesome! Hope you find the time to post up pictures soon! harimauhk, I can't comment on Moro agricultural blades specifically, but don't the Visayan islands have their own barong which (at least today's examples) seem a lot more agricultural? They look almost like chubby garabs with a little more weight forward, but the barong's leaf-shape is present... or maybe I am just getting confused..

19th September 2011, 01:37 AM	#5
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Hi Kuk, Yes, there are agricultural barungs in the Central Visayas, but I believe that came about through cultural exchange between the Bangsamoro tribes and the Bisaya/Cebuano. BTW, I also picked up an agricultural barung crafted by the same Zamboanga smiths, and a karit (sickle) I saw used for slicing through banana stems. It would definitely allay all doubt if someone had an antique version of an agricultural barung/pira, but I guess farm tools wouldn't be cared for and passed down in the same manner.

19th September 2011, 01:58 AM	#6
KuKulzA28 Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: between work and sleep Posts: 731	Good points, as always thanks for contributing your knowledge! Let's guys like me learn up and get a little closer to knowing a thing or two about the Filipino and Moro weapons / martial history. By the way... karit? Like... arit or clurit? Same type of word?

19th September 2011, 02:06 AM	#7
harimauhk Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 88	Yes, arit, karit and celurit are all very close aren't they? Karit is actually Tagalog--I'm not sure what they are called in Sulu. In Cebuano they are called sanggot or sanggut, and sangud is the term in Chavacano. I'm still looking to add a celurit to the collection! I hope to explore more of Indonesia in the years to come.