NEW FORMS OF KERIS HILTS

Rick · 26th August 2011, 01:39 AM

Hi Barry,

This handle strikes me as pure fantasy .
Many modern carvers are just winging it these days; this is such an example IMO .

For Tourists ?

Seems to me like third rate work .

I doubt these fantastic variations such as this one have much basis in old
traditional forms .

Whatever sells and all that .

I couldn't speak for a Javanese collector ........

Rick

A. G. Maisey · 26th August 2011, 03:34 AM

Handles that depart from traditional forms possibly do have a place in modern keris art, after all these kemardikan keris have departed from traditional forms.

As new expressions of a traditional art, I guess I can grudgingly accept that when something ceases to grow it dies, goes rotten, and eventually disappears.

However --- if there is a departure from traditional forms, I would like to see at least some degree of finesse in execution of the new design. Just a touch of class would be nice.

Rick · 26th August 2011, 03:57 AM

Agree Alan, yet this piece seems way over the top IMHO .

No finesse shown there .

David · 26th August 2011, 02:21 PM

I see countless variations of these hilts that mostly seem based off the planar Javanese design. Many have skulls or snakes, sometimes in combination, or other animal forms worked into the design. Frankly i have an affinity for skulls and would like to eventually pick one of these up just for fun. I don't really take it seriously as a new keris hilt form and i'm pretty sure that the use of skulls and snakes is meant more to attract purchase from western collectors than any young members of keris society. I too would like to see some finesse added to the carvings, but thy seem to sell for $25-30 and you can't expect much for that. If it wasn't for the fact that the shipping costs more than the item on these i may have ordered one already just to add to my skull collection.

BTW, all of these seem to be coming from one seller in Jawa.
I also like to believe that keris art is still alive and therefore growing and developing. Here is an example of a new keris hilt which i love and think has a bit of the finesse these others are lacking.

VANDOO · 26th August 2011, 06:25 PM

A FEW MORE NOT AS RECENT AS THE FIRST EXAMPLE.
(NEW) ONE IS ODD AND HAS GARUDA AND NAGA ON THE SAME HANDLE AND IS STYALIZED. I CAN'T TELL IF THEY ARE FIGHTING OR JUST THERE TOGETHER?
(OLD) ANOTHER LOOKS TO BE HANUMAN
(OLD) A BALINESE FRUIT BAT
(NEW) A CROCODILE

BALI AND LOMBOK HAVE ALWAYS SEEMED TO HAVE A WIDER MORE VARIED RANGE IN FORMS OF KERIS HILT. AND TEND TO FEATURE CLEARER REPRESENTATIONS OF THEIR SUBJECTS. NO DOUBT DUE TO HINDU BELIEF VERSUS ISLAMIC ONES FOR WHAT IS PROPER IN ART. ARE THE NEW FORMS LIKE THE FIRST EXAMPLE A BREAK FROM TRADITION IN JAVA OR PERHAPS MADE IN MADURA?

I AGREE BETTER WORKMANSHIP ON THESE NEW HILTS WOULD BE NICE AND PERHAPS IF THERE IS A GOOD MARKET FOR THE PRODUCT THE CARVING WILL IMPROVE BUT THE PRICES WILL LIKELY RISE AS WELL.

Rick · 26th August 2011, 07:11 PM

Some of these are interesting .
The quality of carving really varies .
I'm not sure if it's the quality of the wood or the Carver's lack of sharpening skills .

A. G. Maisey · 27th August 2011, 03:10 AM

We're all pretty accustomed to the more usual forms of traditional keris hilts, however more than a few of the forms that we might think of as "new", or "recent" are in fact very rare forms of hilts that come from the time before the current era with its blossoming of new designs.

The example shown by David is one of these. This hilt that David has shown us is recently carved, however, I saw a number of hilts similar to this one --- maybe even the same -- in Malang with a very well known collector there, in the mid-1970's, well before the keris revival. These were old hilts.

I also have a photocopy of a privately produced book authored by a gentleman whom I knew as "Mister John" , here in Solo. He has passed away now, but he produced a number of books wherein he recorded very rare hilt and blade types that he had encountered. Recorded in this book are several hilts of this comical wayang style.

The hilt with the beast head pommel that Barry has shown is a modern interpretation of a traditional form.

Pakubuwana X of Surakarta had a penchant for the production, and reproduction of unusual hilt styles, and if one had not seen the originals of these and encountered only a recently carved version, one could easily think it was new innovation.

In respect of cost, good material for hilts is very difficult to obtain, and the best materials are expensive. The number of craftsmen who can produce first class work is extremely limited. I know of only two tukang jejeran who can produce first quality hilts in the Surakarta style --- and one of those prefers to go fishing rather than to carve hilts.

In Madura there is really only one man who can do first quality work, and he only works on hilts when he is not occupied in farming tobacco.His work is not cheap and if you order something from him you might wait 12 months or more before you see it.

In fact, best quality anything in keris prabot and wilah is the product of only a very, very few men. There was particular type of Solo mendak that I used to like to use. It was made by only one family. The last member of that family died about 2 years ago. We probably won't see any more of those mendak.

We do not ever see the best quality work offered on ebay, nor anywhere else. If you want the best you need to know somebody and then get on the end of queue.

26th August 2011, 02:21 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,229	I see countless variations of these hilts that mostly seem based off the planar Javanese design. Many have skulls or snakes, sometimes in combination, or other animal forms worked into the design. Frankly i have an affinity for skulls and would like to eventually pick one of these up just for fun. I don't really take it seriously as a new keris hilt form and i'm pretty sure that the use of skulls and snakes is meant more to attract purchase from western collectors than any young members of keris society. I too would like to see some finesse added to the carvings, but thy seem to sell for $25-30 and you can't expect much for that. If it wasn't for the fact that the shipping costs more than the item on these i may have ordered one already just to add to my skull collection. BTW, all of these seem to be coming from one seller in Jawa. I also like to believe that keris art is still alive and therefore growing and developing. Here is an example of a new keris hilt which i love and think has a bit of the finesse these others are lacking. Attached Images

26th August 2011, 06:25 PM	#5
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	A FEW MORE NOT AS RECENT AS THE FIRST EXAMPLE. (NEW) ONE IS ODD AND HAS GARUDA AND NAGA ON THE SAME HANDLE AND IS STYALIZED. I CAN'T TELL IF THEY ARE FIGHTING OR JUST THERE TOGETHER? (OLD) ANOTHER LOOKS TO BE HANUMAN (OLD) A BALINESE FRUIT BAT (NEW) A CROCODILE BALI AND LOMBOK HAVE ALWAYS SEEMED TO HAVE A WIDER MORE VARIED RANGE IN FORMS OF KERIS HILT. AND TEND TO FEATURE CLEARER REPRESENTATIONS OF THEIR SUBJECTS. NO DOUBT DUE TO HINDU BELIEF VERSUS ISLAMIC ONES FOR WHAT IS PROPER IN ART. ARE THE NEW FORMS LIKE THE FIRST EXAMPLE A BREAK FROM TRADITION IN JAVA OR PERHAPS MADE IN MADURA? I AGREE BETTER WORKMANSHIP ON THESE NEW HILTS WOULD BE NICE AND PERHAPS IF THERE IS A GOOD MARKET FOR THE PRODUCT THE CARVING WILL IMPROVE BUT THE PRICES WILL LIKELY RISE AS WELL. Attached Images Last edited by VANDOO; 26th August 2011 at 06:45 PM.

26th August 2011, 01:39 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Hi Barry, This handle strikes me as pure fantasy . Many modern carvers are just winging it these days; this is such an example IMO . For Tourists ? Seems to me like third rate work . I doubt these fantastic variations such as this one have much basis in old traditional forms . Whatever sells and all that . I couldn't speak for a Javanese collector ........ Rick

26th August 2011, 03:34 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	Handles that depart from traditional forms possibly do have a place in modern keris art, after all these kemardikan keris have departed from traditional forms. As new expressions of a traditional art, I guess I can grudgingly accept that when something ceases to grow it dies, goes rotten, and eventually disappears. However --- if there is a departure from traditional forms, I would like to see at least some degree of finesse in execution of the new design. Just a touch of class would be nice.

26th August 2011, 03:57 AM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Agree Alan, yet this piece seems way over the top IMHO . No finesse shown there .

26th August 2011, 07:11 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,347	Some of these are interesting . The quality of carving really varies . I'm not sure if it's the quality of the wood or the Carver's lack of sharpening skills .

27th August 2011, 03:10 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,048	We're all pretty accustomed to the more usual forms of traditional keris hilts, however more than a few of the forms that we might think of as "new", or "recent" are in fact very rare forms of hilts that come from the time before the current era with its blossoming of new designs. The example shown by David is one of these. This hilt that David has shown us is recently carved, however, I saw a number of hilts similar to this one --- maybe even the same -- in Malang with a very well known collector there, in the mid-1970's, well before the keris revival. These were old hilts. I also have a photocopy of a privately produced book authored by a gentleman whom I knew as "Mister John" , here in Solo. He has passed away now, but he produced a number of books wherein he recorded very rare hilt and blade types that he had encountered. Recorded in this book are several hilts of this comical wayang style. The hilt with the beast head pommel that Barry has shown is a modern interpretation of a traditional form. Pakubuwana X of Surakarta had a penchant for the production, and reproduction of unusual hilt styles, and if one had not seen the originals of these and encountered only a recently carved version, one could easily think it was new innovation. In respect of cost, good material for hilts is very difficult to obtain, and the best materials are expensive. The number of craftsmen who can produce first class work is extremely limited. I know of only two tukang jejeran who can produce first quality hilts in the Surakarta style --- and one of those prefers to go fishing rather than to carve hilts. In Madura there is really only one man who can do first quality work, and he only works on hilts when he is not occupied in farming tobacco.His work is not cheap and if you order something from him you might wait 12 months or more before you see it. In fact, best quality anything in keris prabot and wilah is the product of only a very, very few men. There was particular type of Solo mendak that I used to like to use. It was made by only one family. The last member of that family died about 2 years ago. We probably won't see any more of those mendak. We do not ever see the best quality work offered on ebay, nor anywhere else. If you want the best you need to know somebody and then get on the end of queue.