Unknown weapon

[Indianajones]

Hi, the quite interesting knife Tim has presented us deserves to my (humble) opinion its own thread. Although it looks simple it is I think an ancient knife which has its own 'follow ups' in the rest of Asia, as I do also think it originates from mainland Asia (meaning; Birma, Laos etc).

Besides; the zigzag-decoration is a quite basic one and is used my many cultures all over the world. Actually the way it is done reminded me immediately of the decoration on Fijian clubs, but clearly the knife has nothing to do with Fiji.

The fact it is quite an interesting knife is that -as being a N.-Philippine collector- I really consider this knife to be a possible fore-runner of the N.-Phil. Kalinga axe; see the thread 'origin of the Kalinga axe' .
Although it does not look much like one, it does has many similarities -very basic ones- that are so characteristic of the Kalinga axes; spur at back of the blade (although rolled up), a ferrule, the bulges in the handle, the spur, the copper rings as deco and also the zigzag-deco.

Would like to know Nonoy's oppinion about it.

[tom hyle]

[QUOTE=Indianajones]Hi, the quite interesting knife Tim has presented us deserves to my (humble) opinion its own thread. Although it looks simple it is I think an ancient knife which has its own 'follow ups' in the rest of Asia, as I do also think it originates from mainland Asia (meaning; Birma, Laos etc).

Besides; the zigzag-decoration is a quite basic one and is used my many cultures all over the world. Actually the way it is done reminded me immediately of the decoration on Fijian clubs, but clearly the knife has nothing to do with Fiji.

The fact it is quite an interesting knife is that -as being a N.-Philippine collector- I really consider this knife to be a possible fore-runner of the N.-Phil. Kalinga axe; see the thread 'origin of the Kalinga axe' .
Although it does not look much like one, it does has many similarities -very basic ones- that are so characteristic of the Kalinga axes; spur at back of the blade (although rolled up), a ferrule, the bulges in the handle, the spur, the copper rings as deco and also the zigzag-deco.

Would like to know Nonoy's oppinion about it.[/Q


There would seem to be a relation to (other) tanged SE Asian choppers such as the long handled Naga dao as well? Note however that the handle is always curved and that it relates to both dha and European medieval wood carving knives with similar long handles (ie the long handled wood carving knife is not an isolated thing by any means!)
Tim's piece, which still looks African to me, is, at least, not typical, and none of the other ones have projections on their handles.
Interesting point about the spur projecting from the peak of the clip on one or two (depending on Tim's) examples.
The zig zag decoration is usually known in English as "hound's tooth"

[Sajen]

A few days ago I was able to acquire this rattan knife, I think it's Cambodian. The handle was lacquered and it was not easy to find the correct thinner to remove it. It is 48 cm long with a blade from 19,5 cm which is 13 mm thick behind the "habaki". The last picture shows it together with another knife from Cambodia, it was once shown here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=enep
Now I am of the opinion that it is Cambodian as well.

Like usual, all comments are very welcome.

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Very nice finds Detlef, both examples for me are Cambodian Kabet (knife in khmer), they are used throughout the whole region of Cambodia Thailand and Laos, but yours are 100% Cambodian, the give away are the mounts, they are often mistakenly thought to be from Vietnam, likely as they were also used in the Cham regions.
The long hilt ones are for splitting rattan and bamboo and are traditionally carried in a very simple bamboo holder - scabbard slung over one shoulder, see pics attached, these are modern but just to show the means of carrying them and what they were used for, but also as weapons to.
Today with youtube and some interesting vids on Cambodian smiths you can still see these being made in identical form and still used, if I am correct the style of the mounts on these are from the Phnom Penh regions, there are other types though as there are different types of P'keak - Kokok '' Maks '' from different regions, much the same as there are regional types of many other Asian knives used for work and doubling up as weapons, hope this helps. Snody

[Ian]

Hi Detlef,

Very nice looking knife. I agree with Snody, the mounts look Cambodian although the blade style is found widely in mainland SE Asia. The Malay term for this knife would be a pisau raut, similar in shape to the small utility knife often seen in a sheath on the back of a mandau. While these knives could certainly be used as nasty self-defense items, they were mostly utility knives for cutting rattan and other chores.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Ian

Hi Detlef,

Very nice looking knife. I agree with Snody, the mounts look Cambodian although the blade style is found widely in mainland SE Asia. The Malay term for this knife would be a pisau raut, similar in shape to the small utility knife often seen in a sheath on the back of a mandau. While these knives could certainly be used as nasty self-defense items, they were mostly utility knives for cutting rattan and other chores.

Hi Ian,

Thank you for confirming my and Snodys origin determination! And yes, pisau raut would be the Malay term for these knives. Like all knives they could be used as self-defense but by my example is only the curve at the edge sharpened. Snody has shown good pictures of how it is used until today.

Regards,
Detlef

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Maj-Biffy Snodgrass

Very nice finds Detlef, both examples for me are Cambodian Kabet (knife in khmer), they are used throughout the whole region of Cambodia Thailand and Laos, but yours are 100% Cambodian, the give away are the mounts, they are often mistakenly thought to be from Vietnam, likely as they were also used in the Cham regions.
The long hilt ones are for splitting rattan and bamboo and are traditionally carried in a very simple bamboo holder - scabbard slung over one shoulder, see pics attached, these are modern but just to show the means of carrying them and what they were used for, but also as weapons to.
Today with youtube and some interesting vids on Cambodian smiths you can still see these being made in identical form and still used, if I am correct the style of the mounts on these are from the Phnom Penh regions, there are other types though as there are different types of P'keak - Kokok '' Maks '' from different regions, much the same as there are regional types of many other Asian knives used for work and doubling up as weapons, hope this helps. Snody

Hi Snody,

Thank you very much for confirming that this knife is from Cambodia and the very interesting pictures. By ebay is listed such a knife with a scabbard like on your first picture but much more fancy, sadly I can't post a picture because it's still for selling.

Regards,
Detlef

[Maj-Biffy Snodgrass]

Here is another with the same style mounts, 19thc and from south Cambodia, note the very apparent lotus bud tip and hilt, a very prominent theme in Cambodia.
The basket scabbard is not likely the original but is used throughout the whole region of Thailand and Cambodia into Laos, so far i have never seen it in use in Burma though.
This one I once owned and sold many years ago. Snody

[kronckew]

The basket scabbards seem to be fairly common for working tools in the area.