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2nd August 2011, 09:28 AM
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#1 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Posts: 102
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Quote:
for single hand or 1 1/2 use: http://www.zornhau.de/dinkelsbuhl-first-steel/#more-92 Single hand figthing styles for the Messer are described in Lecküchner, H: Kunst des Messerfechtens (CGM 582), 1482 http://daten.digitale-sammlungen.de/...002184/images/ Best Regards, Thilo |
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2nd August 2011, 12:50 PM
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#2 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 9,694
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BTW, Michl ... and others
 .Are you aware of this publication? Nice swords here. All examples with full technical data. Pity (for me) is written in german  .... But the illustrations are universal, though  .. |
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2nd August 2011, 05:39 PM
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#3 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi 'Nando,
Of course, the Schneider/Stüber book on edged weapons from the Zurich arsenal has been in my library for some 30 years and has often seen reference. I'd like to add that the measurements, too, are internationally understood. Best, Michael |
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2nd August 2011, 05:44 PM
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#4 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
Hi Thilo, As I am very much aware of the 'source' whereafter that engaged young guy builds his replicas, I have become very reserved ... there are way too many fakes around originating from that very same 'source'. Best, Michael |
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2nd August 2011, 09:49 PM
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#5 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Dortmund, Germany
Posts: 102
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Quote:
Thanks for the remarks about the 'source' of the weapons. I didn't know (or even suspect) that it was questionable. Regarding the intentions of the people whose website i linked to: While i am aware that documenting weapons to build replicas as close to the original as possible is problematic from a collectors perspective, i am *very* sure these people won't sell fakes to anyone. Best Regards, Thilo |
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3rd August 2011, 07:46 PM
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#6 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Hi Thilo,
You are certainly right about the young people copying the swords without any 'dark' intention. The problem is the dealer who lends them the 'original' pieces and thereby makes them get 'copied after an original'. The 'original' items are fakes themselves, though, and by this method get copied on and on, spoiling peoples' minds. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 3rd August 2011 at 08:03 PM. |
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5th August 2011, 07:34 PM
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#7 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
Hi Thilo, Thank you for pointing out this valuable link! As it is much preferred on our forum to post pictures instead of posting links, I am going to publish a selection of Hans Lehküchner, Kunst des Messerfechtens (CGM 582), 1482. Please note the birds' head shaped pommels (Vogelkopfknauf) as well as the single edged blades with their tips sharpened on both egdes. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 5th August 2011 at 08:23 PM. |
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5th August 2011, 08:25 PM
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#8 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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The rest.
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6th August 2011, 09:15 AM
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#9 |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,060
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Hi Gentlemen,
very nice, this is another type of messer, more of the "Hauswehr" type, with shorter quards and characteristic "Parierdorn". best regards Jasper |
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6th August 2011, 09:13 PM
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#10 |
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Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 41
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Hi Jasper!
Do you have any measurements for that nice messer? Is it your's? How old is it? /Micke D |
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9th August 2011, 08:41 PM
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#11 | |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Quote:
Hi Micke D, All I can say is that I would date Jasper's Messer to ca. 1490-1400, and that is exactly the period this thread is all about, the high time of the Landsknechte. The short and heavily swamped quillons are characteristic for the Late Gothic stylistic period. A very nice and nearly identical Messer or Seitenwehr is illustrated in Johann von Schwarzenberg's Die Bambergische Peinliche Halsgerichtsordnung (Constitutio Criminalis Bambergensis) of 1507. This illustration was originally posted by our member Samik earlier in this thread. I am sure Jasper will give you the measurements you required. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 9th August 2011 at 10:13 PM. |
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9th August 2011, 09:40 PM
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#12 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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From the Collection of the Museo Poldi Pezzoli, Milano
Let's start with a really great two hand sword (spadone a due mani) with richly fullered blade, Veneto, ca. 1510, overall length 1,73 m.
Next in line is another, the hilt Venetian, the blade German, ca. 1535-40, overall length 1,53 m. Then there is another, Italy, ca. 1560, oa. length 1,505 m. The fourth item was made in Venetia using a German blade, ca. 1565, oa. length 1,38 m, a piece from the end of the period of Landsknechte. So far for the great swords. There is also a fine Landsknecht hand and a half sword with a single edged blade, South German or Swiss, ca. 1560, oa. length 1,28 m. Please note the perfectly original black and blueish colors of the hilt! And, last not least, a fine South German or Swiss Katzbalger-Degen, the fine blackened hilt and Brezel-quillons characteristic of the 1540s; oa. length 1,05 m. The grip wire binding including the Turk's heads is a later alteration. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 10th August 2011 at 02:05 AM. |
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11th August 2011, 03:33 PM
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#13 | |
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,060
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Quote:
this one is not my property but I do have the measurements for you. allover length = 49.0 cm, cross-width = 10 cm Blade: length = 36.5 cm, width = 3.8 cm weight: 502 gram Michael gave exactly the right period for this messer. around 1490 best, jasper |
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14th August 2011, 10:03 AM
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 26
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Ahh... again so many great things!
A few questions: 1) Are there a remains of a second ring on the messer's hilt? Two broken pieces in the center of a guard look like having a cross section just like a ring on another side, and remind it very closely, as for me. 2) And the first за those four two-handed swords - what are it's more detailed dimensions, if they are available? Weight, blade width and thickness, hilt length etc. |
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7th August 2011, 12:37 PM
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#15 |
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(deceased)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking
Posts: 4,310
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Right, Jasper,
It's a so called Seiten- or Hauswehr, tool and weapon in one. The grips and hollow rivets seem to be new. Best, Michael |
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