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Old 1st August 2011, 05:32 PM   #1
Kurt
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Default Buttin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim McDougall
Hi Louis-Pierre,
Its great to have you posting on this! and your work on these sa'if has been one of my best resources for research. It has been a long time ago, but represents some of the best research compiled on these swords to date outside the standard references, i.e. Elgood and Buttin.

I agree that this example with stout, short blade of hanger/cutlass type blade would suggest maritime use as you have well pointed out. The hilt form is really interesting and seems to derive, or at least compare to quillon arrangements and in degree, hilt styles of North Italy as early as the end of the 16th century. The earliest example of this style hilt seems to be found in a sword of stated North African style from the period of Murid III (1574-95), well placing it in the Ottoman sphere ("The Silver Dragon and the Golden Fish", David Alexander, p.235, fig. 7).

As appears in Buttin ("Catalogue de la Collection d'Armes: Europiennes et Orientales of Charles Buttin", 1933, #1004) the exact hilt style and motif is seen as well as apparantly in ivory, shown as 'Arab, 17th century". The interesting highly stylized and blockish quillon terminals are also present.

It appears that this hilt style must have become highly favored and like many ethnographic hilt forms, perpetuated over long periods. Even in cases where other hilt forms intercede, often revivalist inclinations result in returning to the much revered old styles. This makes it difficult of course in establishing reliable chronological development patterns in many of these sword forms.

The term nim'sha, as has often been pointed out, by its alluded etymology to an Arabic term referring to 'short sword', has often, actually most typically, been misapplied to most of these sa'if from the Maghrebi versions to many of these hilt forms which have full size blades, yet still called 'nimsha'. It seems that the term itself, like many of the terms referring to many sword forms (katar, kaskara, kilij, tulwar, paluouar et al) falls into the colloquial 'collectors' glossary, in which they have apparantly been derived from unclear misinterpretations or broad assumptions. Some of these seem purely contrived, such as with the fanciful term 'scimitar' which appears more the product of literary convention than any reliable etymology.

Returning to this sword, the reference to it being of Zanzibar production brings it in parallel to the familiar sa'ifs of similar hilt form, but with the extended 'D' type ring projecting from the crossguard, presents an interesting conundrum. I have yet been unable to find any reference that unequivocally designates these sa'if with open ringed crossguard extensions or traverse bar to Zanzibar. I have only heard this conjecturally aside from in "Islamic Weapons:Maghreb to Moghul" (A. Tirri, 2003) in which Tirri claims on p.79, "...in Zanzibar, documentary evidence identifies an extensive edged weapon manufacturing center during the 19th and early 20th centuries".
In the Buttin catalog (op. cit. examples 996-1004) of the entire array of these ringed guard sa'ifs are designated as "Arab' and to the 17th and 18th centuries. It is clearly noted that thier characteristic rings also derived from North Italian hilt systems.

Unfortunately Mr. Tirri does not cite the source for the 'documentary evidence' which would have been most helpful. Another dilemma involving 'Zanzibar' weapons are the 'H' shaped (baselard form) short swords termed 'Zanzibar swords' , which designation derives from Sir Richard Burton's 1885 "Book of the Sword". In this case Burton (p.166, fig.183) actually perpetuated an original error in Auguste Demmens 1877 reference where he misidentifies the weapon as a Zanzibar weapon (p.416, #100). Charles Buttin (op.cit, p.270) cites this error in detail, and clarifies that the weapon is in reality the Moroccan form known as s'boula and these seem to have traversed the trade routes via Sekkin and into Zanzibar.

The diffusion of these weapon forms through these trade routes, both maritime as well as trans-Saharan caravans in indisputable. The broad identification as 'Arab' is probably most applicable in most cases where sound provenance is not attainable in my opinion.

I would very much like to know if anyone knows of any documented evidence assigning the ring hilted sa'if form to Zanzibar in specific, and to thier production there. In the case of Muscat (this coastal region of Oman was the actual trade operation), thier connection to thier Sultanate in Zanzibar offers more tangible assessment of 'Zanzibar' to this cutlass as it is hard to say which location actually produced the weapons...both were ports of call receiving large quantities of trade blades.

As earlier mentioned, there are potential cases for Hyderabad in India, via the Malabar trade route also plied by these dhows. These type hilts are known in India as well, in what degree unclear, but it is known that here swords were produced for Hadhramaut in the Yemen. The so called Zanzibar sa'if, while unclear if actually produced in Zanzibar were indeed destined for Yemen, so it would appear these hilts may have been produced at several locations, while it remains certain that they were present throughout the Arab trade sphere.


All best regards,
Jim
Dear Jim ,
for your excellent explanations to illustrate
here is a copy of Buttin.
Thanks
Kurt
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Old 1st August 2011, 05:46 PM   #2
Jim McDougall
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Thank you very much Kurt, and thank you for posting this wonderful example!
It has been a great opportunity to revisit research on these interesting swords and to write on the history associated with them.

All the best,
Jim
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Old 2nd August 2011, 06:10 AM   #3
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Hi Abdullatif,

Thanks for your remark.
You are right for the translation of HALF by NSFR in classic Arabic (called so in the Maghreb). Same for the word SWORD that is SAدF SIF in classic arab.

But as you know, the Moroccan Arab (called Darija) is the spoken language by the Moroccans including the Berber populations. It belongs to the group of the dialects from the Maghreb, with the Algerians and the Tunisians.

Inspired widely by classic Arabic, the Moroccan Arab is the dialect from the Maghreb most strongly influenced by the Berber language. It was also influenced by French and Spanish and to a lesser extent by the languages of Black Africa, Portuguese, Italian and English.

There are real differences of vocabulary and grammar between Maghrebin and Classic Arab. That is why in schools and especially universities of the Maghreb, the courses of classic or literary Arabic are driven by Syrian or Egyptian professors. It is pure Arabic.

NIMCHA is the national sabre of Moroccan. It has not an european origin. We were a lot to think that this word was doubtless a Moroccan local word with maybe a Berber origin ( tamazight ).

It is not and i just received an answer from Faysal (International Forum: http://help.berberber.com).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I find that on this website:

القاموس الإسلامى - عربى إنجليزى [الأرشيف] - الصفحة 3 - منتديات بوابة العرب

النِّيمَجَاه‏

كَلِمَةٌ فَارِسِيَّةٌ مُرَكَّبَةٌ مِن " نِيم " بِمَعنَى : نِصفٍ و " جَه " وَهِيَ عَلَامَةُ تَصغِيرٍ فَمَعنَاهَا الحَرفِيُّ: " النُّصَيفُ " وَهِيَ فِي
اَلفَارِسِيَّةِ اِسمٌ لِنَوعٍ مِن اَلسُّيُوفِ وَلِبُندُقِيَّةٍ قَصِيرَةٍ وَاستَعمَلَهَا اَلعَرَبُ بِمَعنَى اَلسَّيفِ فَقَط وَقَد وَرَدَت بِدُونِ يَاءٍ وَكَذَا قُلِبَت اَلجِيمُ
شِينًا فَأَصبَحَت : " النِّمشَاه ‏
Al-Nimjah, Also Al-Nimshah : A short saber

Translation:

النِّيمَجَاه‏ Al-Nimjah is a persian word composed of "نيم", meaning HALF and "Jah" " چه" a diminutive. The word "nimjah" "نيمچاه " means litteraly "Little Half" ! The word in persian means little saber or little gun, but the arabians used it only to mean a saber et they deleted ي of نيم and replaced the چ of چه by ش : the word became : Al-Nimshah النِّمشَاه .

In the near and middle Arabic world, it's called SAدF, term of the Semitic languages (Aramaic) common to Arabic (indicating a curved blade) and in the Hebrew (indicating a straight blade).

With my best regards.
Louis-Pierre

Last edited by LPCA; 2nd August 2011 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 3rd August 2011, 04:29 PM   #4
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Thanks Louis-Pierre, excellent information clarifying more on the probable etymology and application of this elusive term. There are so many of these kinds of anomalies among 'collectors terms' in ethnographic weapons it would be great if we could accomplish this kind of detail on some of the others.
In most cases they have become so firmly established in published material and colloquial use that it seems almost counterproductive to try to change at this point. Usually I try to use the proper term sa'if and 'nimcha' in parentheses.
This brings to mind also the 'Zanzibar' term for the forms of these sa'if which typically have transverse loop extending from crossguard over blade (sometimes termed 'D' guards) similar to the loops seen on many Italian storta and rapiers. I have not been able to find any reference or substantiation that assigns these specifically to 'Zanzibar' aside from the incited and allegedly 'documented' use of the classification in Tirri ("Islamic Arms: Mahreb to Moghul).
I agree with your more correct classification as 'Arab' in your work, which aligns with the term used by Buttin in his references.

Best regards,
Jim
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Old 4th August 2011, 04:53 PM   #5
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Hi friend Jim,
I am glad too to meet you again on our favourite battlefield....

First, we must admit that all authors dont have the same seriousness. Some are truly pioneers and researchers such as Stone and Buttin ....who document their definition and are very careful in the use of words. Others, while compiling an outstanding job, have a more commercial approach and uses terms that are insufficiently documented and taking the force of law for collectors .. and die hard!!.
For example, the term Flissa, Flyssa, ...., straight sword of the Kabyle of Algeria, is the name given by the Foreign Legion in the 1850's during the conquest of Kabylia. It comes from the name of a tribe of Petite Kabylie: the Ifflissen Ibn Bahr. This weapon is typically Kabyle. However, we often find it described as Berber from Morocco (Kabyle are berber, but from Algeria). If you ask a Kabyle what is a Flyssa, it ignores it. He will say Sekkim or Iskin (knife in Arabic) or Imus (Tamazight).

Zanzibar: Arab dhows terminus of the monsoon before becoming the dependence of Oman (late XVII-late XIX), it was an important trade harbour for exchanges between African and Arab worlds. In addition the proximity of many mines in East Africa allowed it to become a major center of iron working. However, the Arabian Peninsula had no resources in iron. By cons, purchase orders of weapons were Arabs and had to match their taste. Therefore it would be more accurate to say Arab Saïf producted in Zanzibar.

Falling quillions
Among its nine swords, the Prophet had 3 with falling quillons of which the first one Al-Mhatur which was bequeathed by his father. So they existed at the VII. (see Sabres de Mahomet in Topkapi collection)

Also listed on the Bas-relief "Combat of David and Goliath" of Gagik (Armenia 920), the falling quillons equiped without doubt the swords from the Hispano-Moorish XI. They are found on Grenada Jinete produced from the thirteenth (ref: Chronica in Alfonso X -1221 to 1284) and copied by Christians from the fifteenth (ref: Sword of the last Moorish king Boabdil).

Hand guard - D Guard

Italian origin:
For some, quillons handle and hand guard is of Italian origin, or at least, was known to the Arab XV-XVIth by the trade routes from Genoa and Venice (Robert Elgood - "Arms & Armour of Arabia "1994).
Weapons of reference would be:
Shiavone-the name of the Italian basket sword at the end of XV-XVII (sword of the slave Guard of Doge of Venice).
or Fauchon (French) or Falchion (English): short sword with wide blade convex edge of the Middle Age.

North African origin:
see the attached picture of a Spanish sword of the fifteenth (part of search - Collection of Charles Buttin). Inspired by North African, it is a sword of transition (or espada of patillas ) with short handle with one hand, hand guard, hilt down and two rings for the passage of the index to consolidate the shot.
It seems that the models had the Hispano-Moorish hand guard before the fifteenth (ie, before the Italian track ...) at a time when the guards of the European were still in cross.

Sinhalese origin:
Another track explores the possibility of transmission to the Arabs by the Sinhalese. It seems that there were very early (before Islam) trade relations between the Arabian Peninsula and the island of Ceylon.
The handle of the Kastane of Ceylon has all the elements of the Moroccan and Arabic Guard (cf. Charles Buttin and Alain Jacob).
The Kastane have quillons in which a hand guard (side of the edge) and two inner glued to the blade.

I am not really sure that you will understand my poor english. I just hope...

LOUIS-PIERRE
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Old 5th September 2011, 06:36 PM   #6
Ibrahiim al Balooshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPCA
Hi friend Jim,
I am glad too to meet you again on our favourite battlefield....

First, we must admit that all authors dont have the same seriousness. Some are truly pioneers and researchers such as Stone and Buttin ....who document their definition and are very careful in the use of words. Others, while compiling an outstanding job, have a more commercial approach and uses terms that are insufficiently documented and taking the force of law for collectors .. and die hard!!.
For example, the term Flissa, Flyssa, ...., straight sword of the Kabyle of Algeria, is the name given by the Foreign Legion in the 1850's during the conquest of Kabylia. It comes from the name of a tribe of Petite Kabylie: the Ifflissen Ibn Bahr. This weapon is typically Kabyle. However, we often find it described as Berber from Morocco (Kabyle are berber, but from Algeria). If you ask a Kabyle what is a Flyssa, it ignores it. He will say Sekkim or Iskin (knife in Arabic) or Imus (Tamazight).

Zanzibar: Arab dhows terminus of the monsoon before becoming the dependence of Oman (late XVII-late XIX), it was an important trade harbour for exchanges between African and Arab worlds. In addition the proximity of many mines in East Africa allowed it to become a major center of iron working. However, the Arabian Peninsula had no resources in iron. By cons, purchase orders of weapons were Arabs and had to match their taste. Therefore it would be more accurate to say Arab Saïf producted in Zanzibar.

Falling quillions
Among its nine swords, the Prophet had 3 with falling quillons of which the first one Al-Mhatur which was bequeathed by his father. So they existed at the VII. (see Sabres de Mahomet in Topkapi collection)

Also listed on the Bas-relief "Combat of David and Goliath" of Gagik (Armenia 920), the falling quillons equiped without doubt the swords from the Hispano-Moorish XI. They are found on Grenada Jinete produced from the thirteenth (ref: Chronica in Alfonso X -1221 to 1284) and copied by Christians from the fifteenth (ref: Sword of the last Moorish king Boabdil).

Hand guard - D Guard

Italian origin:
For some, quillons handle and hand guard is of Italian origin, or at least, was known to the Arab XV-XVIth by the trade routes from Genoa and Venice (Robert Elgood - "Arms & Armour of Arabia "1994).
Weapons of reference would be:
Shiavone-the name of the Italian basket sword at the end of XV-XVII (sword of the slave Guard of Doge of Venice).
or Fauchon (French) or Falchion (English): short sword with wide blade convex edge of the Middle Age.

North African origin:
see the attached picture of a Spanish sword of the fifteenth (part of search - Collection of Charles Buttin). Inspired by North African, it is a sword of transition (or espada of patillas ) with short handle with one hand, hand guard, hilt down and two rings for the passage of the index to consolidate the shot.
It seems that the models had the Hispano-Moorish hand guard before the fifteenth (ie, before the Italian track ...) at a time when the guards of the European were still in cross.

Sinhalese origin:
Another track explores the possibility of transmission to the Arabs by the Sinhalese. It seems that there were very early (before Islam) trade relations between the Arabian Peninsula and the island of Ceylon.
The handle of the Kastane of Ceylon has all the elements of the Moroccan and Arabic Guard (cf. Charles Buttin and Alain Jacob).
The Kastane have quillons in which a hand guard (side of the edge) and two inner glued to the blade.

I am not really sure that you will understand my poor english. I just hope...

LOUIS-PIERRE

Salaams LOUIS-PIERRE,

Your reference to Sinhalese Kastane is interesting since it is generally accepted that the "influence" came the other way from Italy and Venice via the Red sea and possibly Zanzibar to Sri Lanka... and that the arabs settled in many coastal regions in Sri Lanka making a plausible sword link up to what is now an Iconic emblem . It does however look very Oriental and I wonder if the influence could have been from the Chinese... or is this design a Sinhalese thoroughbred.... or a crossbreed?

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Last edited by Ibrahiim al Balooshi; 6th September 2011 at 04:37 PM. Reason: text
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Old 5th September 2011, 09:29 PM   #7
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Just received this one. Zanzibari......or Arabian made in Zanzibar?
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Old 4th August 2011, 05:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LPCA
Hi Abdullatif,

Thanks for your remark.
You are right for the translation of HALF by NSFR in classic Arabic (called so in the Maghreb). Same for the word SWORD that is SAدF SIF in classic arab.

But as you know, the Moroccan Arab (called Darija) is the spoken language by the Moroccans including the Berber populations. It belongs to the group of the dialects from the Maghreb, with the Algerians and the Tunisians.

Inspired widely by classic Arabic, the Moroccan Arab is the dialect from the Maghreb most strongly influenced by the Berber language. It was also influenced by French and Spanish and to a lesser extent by the languages of Black Africa, Portuguese, Italian and English.

There are real differences of vocabulary and grammar between Maghrebin and Classic Arab. That is why in schools and especially universities of the Maghreb, the courses of classic or literary Arabic are driven by Syrian or Egyptian professors. It is pure Arabic.

NIMCHA is the national sabre of Moroccan. It has not an european origin. We were a lot to think that this word was doubtless a Moroccan local word with maybe a Berber origin ( tamazight ).

It is not and i just received an answer from Faysal (International Forum: http://help.berberber.com).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I find that on this website:

القاموس الإسلامى - عربى إنجليزى [الأرشيف] - الصفحة 3 - منتديات بوابة العرب

النِّيمَجَاه‏

كَلِمَةٌ فَارِسِيَّةٌ مُرَكَّبَةٌ مِن " نِيم " بِمَعنَى : نِصفٍ و " جَه " وَهِيَ عَلَامَةُ تَصغِيرٍ فَمَعنَاهَا الحَرفِيُّ: " النُّصَيفُ " وَهِيَ فِي
اَلفَارِسِيَّةِ اِسمٌ لِنَوعٍ مِن اَلسُّيُوفِ وَلِبُندُقِيَّةٍ قَصِيرَةٍ وَاستَعمَلَهَا اَلعَرَبُ بِمَعنَى اَلسَّيفِ فَقَط وَقَد وَرَدَت بِدُونِ يَاءٍ وَكَذَا قُلِبَت اَلجِيمُ
شِينًا فَأَصبَحَت : " النِّمشَاه ‏
Al-Nimjah, Also Al-Nimshah : A short saber

Translation:

النِّيمَجَاه‏ Al-Nimjah is a persian word composed of "نيم", meaning HALF and "Jah" " چه" a diminutive. The word "nimjah" "نيمچاه " means litteraly "Little Half" ! The word in persian means little saber or little gun, but the arabians used it only to mean a saber et they deleted ي of نيم and replaced the چ of چه by ش : the word became : Al-Nimshah النِّمشَاه .

In the near and middle Arabic world, it's called SAدF, term of the Semitic languages (Aramaic) common to Arabic (indicating a curved blade) and in the Hebrew (indicating a straight blade).

With my best regards.
Louis-Pierre
Hello LP,

I can see it much clearer now. and indeed, I remember some persian words mixed to describe "half" using "nim or num" But as I said, to an arab with no connection to the term, he will find it foreign and indeed it is.

Thanks alot for the precious info!

Regards,

Abdullatif
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Old 5th August 2011, 05:50 AM   #9
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Hello Abdullatif,

I understand much better that the word NIMCHA sounds foreign for an Arab.
This word has traveled..... But how and when?
One might think that the Arabs have conveyed it in their conquests to the Magheb. But i think it was a bit early....the word seems to have been used later in Morocco.
Mystery!!!

All the best
Louis-Pierre
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