Oman, Morocco or Zanzibar?

[A.alnakkas]

Hello Kurt,

The shape of the guard is moroccan. The scabbard is very interesting, reminds me of persian style!

It looks very small though, what are the dimensions?

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello Kurt,

The shape of the guard is moroccan. The scabbard is very interesting, reminds me of persian style!

It looks very small though, what are the dimensions?

Total length is 95cm .
Best
Kurt

[ariel]

A.alnakkas
"It looks very small though"


Because it is a "Nimcha" :-)

[Battara]

You have a nice nimcha with atypical blade. The hilt material - is it ivory or camel bone and gold?

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Battara

You have a nice nimcha with atypical blade. The hilt material - is it ivory or camel bone and gold?

Hi Battara ,

The handle is made ​​of ivory.
With 20 carat gold.
Kurt

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by ariel

A.alnakkas
"It looks very small though"


Because it is a "Nimcha" :-)

Hey Ariel,

Can you explain more please? most of the nimchas I have seen ( have 3 personally) have european blades of normal length. I must say though, I like the length on this one, looks vicious!

[ariel]

Most of my info derives from Elgood's book, where he explains that nimcha has a connotation of being small. This one has a feel not of a Moroccan one, but of a South-Arabian ( Oman, perhaps, since they had more sophisticated tastes and were a seafaring bunch). Such swords are quite useless as cavalry weapons and would not be suitable for horse or camel riders, but ideal for sea battles, analogous to european cutlases.

Kurt, it is a beauty!!!

[Jim McDougall]

Kurt,
Most interesting example . The term 'nimcha' has been most often colloquially applied to the Moroccan sa'ifs which typically have this distinct hilt system. This hilt type with downturned quillons and incorporated upswept knuckle guard developed from probably Italian hilts possibly as early as 16th century, but did not attain wide popularity in the Maghreb until the 17th.

The blades on most of the sa'if's in Morocco which we know as 'nim'cha (=Ar. short sword) are interestingly with full length blades, as typically they were from European trade blades readily available in the trade networks to the ports of the North African littoral. Also the well known 'Barbary Pirates' brought materials including blades to these areas.

The hilt style on this weapon actually seems Arabian to me, and has strong resemblances to Hadhramauti types of swords (the discs are seen usually in repousse silver karabela type hilts), and the scabbard which along with the mounts seems more modern of course than the blade. The blade resembles earlier European military types of 18th-19th century sidearms and of 'cutlass' type. This incarnation seems to be Ottoman sphere quite likely Arab and recalling the much shorter hanger/cutlass type weapons that were well known in Arabian regions in Ottoman control and favored for maritime use.

I know I have seen this hilt (with the peaked extension at top of hilt) and the swirled motif embossed in the leather of the scabbard but need to look further.
In the meantime, very nice example Kurt, and hope my thoughts are of some help.

All best regards,
Jim

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Kurt,
Most interesting example . The term 'nimcha' has been most often colloquially applied to the Moroccan sa'ifs which typically have this distinct hilt system. This hilt type with downturned quillons and incorporated upswept knuckle guard developed from probably Italian hilts possibly as early as 16th century, but did not attain wide popularity in the Maghreb until the 17th.

The blades on most of the sa'if's in Morocco which we know as 'nim'cha (=Ar. short sword) are interestingly with full length blades, as typically they were from European trade blades readily available in the trade networks to the ports of the North African littoral. Also the well known 'Barbary Pirates' brought materials including blades to these areas.

The hilt style on this weapon actually seems Arabian to me, and has strong resemblances to Hadhramauti types of swords (the discs are seen usually in repousse silver karabela type hilts), and the scabbard which along with the mounts seems more modern of course than the blade. The blade resembles earlier European military types of 18th-19th century sidearms and of 'cutlass' type. This incarnation seems to be Ottoman sphere quite likely Arab and recalling the much shorter hanger/cutlass type weapons that were well known in Arabian regions in Ottoman control and favored for maritime use.

I know I have seen this hilt (with the peaked extension at top of hilt) and the swirled motif embossed in the leather of the scabbard but need to look further.
In the meantime, very nice example Kurt, and hope my thoughts are of some help.

All best regards,
Jim

Thanks Jim ,
I think like you can see it is typical lether motif of Oman.
18 century ??

Regards
Kurt

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Kurt,
Most interesting example . The term 'nimcha' has been most often colloquially applied to the Moroccan sa'ifs which typically have this distinct hilt system. This hilt type with downturned quillons and incorporated upswept knuckle guard developed from probably Italian hilts possibly as early as 16th century, but did not attain wide popularity in the Maghreb until the 17th.

The blades on most of the sa'if's in Morocco which we know as 'nim'cha (=Ar. short sword) are interestingly with full length blades, as typically they were from European trade blades readily available in the trade networks to the ports of the North African littoral. Also the well known 'Barbary Pirates' brought materials including blades to these areas.

The hilt style on this weapon actually seems Arabian to me, and has strong resemblances to Hadhramauti types of swords (the discs are seen usually in repousse silver karabela type hilts), and the scabbard which along with the mounts seems more modern of course than the blade. The blade resembles earlier European military types of 18th-19th century sidearms and of 'cutlass' type. This incarnation seems to be Ottoman sphere quite likely Arab and recalling the much shorter hanger/cutlass type weapons that were well known in Arabian regions in Ottoman control and favored for maritime use.

I know I have seen this hilt (with the peaked extension at top of hilt) and the swirled motif embossed in the leather of the scabbard but need to look further.
In the meantime, very nice example Kurt, and hope my thoughts are of some help.

All best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim, The Hadramaut is a place I need to go and see... regret however that it is probably 50 years too late. As a compensation I have just read a dusty old mid sixtys copy of Hammond Innes "Harvest of Journeys" where in the first part he is winging around that area which was in part a British Protectorate and in one small town he describes it as totally Javanese!! (at that point the bells are ringing !! ) The (once but in decline) rich Yemeni landlords of Java..In the Hadramaut ! I am still stunned by the revelation. Regards Ibrahiim.

[LPCA]

Salam Ibrahim,

I do agree with you that Europe is one track among others. It would be appropriate to leave the Eastern door wide open.
The Arabs were great traders and great travelers. No doubt that from their settlements in India, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, ... they brought innovations in all areas, including arms.

I own exactly the same Nimcha shown by kahnjar1. It is an arab nimcha made in Zanzibar, for Yemen i believe.

There are some keys to better recognize the different saïf and nimcha.

1 - the button that blocks the tang: see image (left: zanzibari - right: maghrebi - often a coin)
2 - the profile: see image - from left Saïf - Zanzibari - Maghrebi
3 - the Guard: first image: D Zanzibari guard - Second image: straight guard Maghrebi
3 - the protection against the shots sliding over the flat of the blade
image 1: Maghrebi protection (pitones) - image 2: Zanzibari protection.

With my kind regards
Louis-Pierre

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hello Kurt,

The shape of the guard is moroccan. The scabbard is very interesting, reminds me of persian style!

It looks very small though, what are the dimensions?

I agree with Lofty.....Moroccan hilt style. The "Zanzibari" style has a D shaped "guard" at the extremity of the quillons.
Can't comment on the scabbard but no doubt Ibrahiim will have some comment as to possible origins when he sees this post. Very nice piece by the way.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I agree with Lofty.....Moroccan hilt style. The "Zanzibari" style has a D shaped "guard" at the extremity of the quillons.
Can't comment on the scabbard but no doubt Ibrahiim will have some comment as to possible origins when he sees this post. Very nice piece by the way.

The hilt style on Kurts example seems more in accord with these kinds of swords associated with Algeria, though the 'Zanzibar' (per Buttin)form with ring on guard often has the prong as in this case (attached posted by Dom). The 'Saudi' form (red back ground posted by Dom), which is actually specific to Hadhramaut (per Elgood) The Zanzibar types seem to have been much associated with Yemen where many of them seem to have come from.

The sa'if with two quillons on one side, one on the other, no ring guard on the crossguard and no peak on the pommel is the 'Moroccan' style hilt )as posted by Rick with decking background).

[kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

The hilt style on Kurts example seems more in accord with these kinds of swords associated with Algeria, though the 'Zanzibar' (per Buttin)form with ring on guard often has the prong as in this case (attached posted by Dom). The 'Saudi' form (red back ground posted by Dom), which is actually specific to Hadhramaut (per Elgood) The Zanzibar types seem to have been much associated with Yemen where many of them seem to have come from.

The sa'if with two quillons on one side, one on the other, no ring guard on the crossguard and no peak on the pommel is the 'Moroccan' style hilt )as posted by Rick with decking background).

Yes I agree. I had forgotten those pics of Doms. They clearly show the ring "guard" of the "Zanzibari" type.
Hope all is well with you Jim.
Regards Stu

[tom hyle]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

I agree with Lofty.....Moroccan hilt style. The "Zanzibari" style has a D shaped "guard" at the extremity of the quillons.

Known in Latin as an annoe (spellings various) or ring.
These are not universal to the Eastern type, but occasional to it.
IMHO much more diagnostic is the shape of the quillion block and of the quillons themselves.

[Kurt]

I found this interesting "Nimcha" (?) In a French book.
could this decoration be from the 18th century.
Nimcha or Saif?
Dear Louis - Pierre you can say more about that?
Best Kurt

[LPCA]

Hi Kurt,

It may be a presentation Nimcha even if it misses the full set of quillions (of which the guard). The profile of the handle is the same that the one of a Nimcha.
This type of work on silver was and is again nowadays done by the jew community of the casbash. Prudently, i would say late XIX°, early XX°. Why not before?? But, the blade would tell more for its datation.

Best for you.
Louis-Pierre

[Kurt]

Originally Posted by LPCA

Hi Kurt,

It may be a presentation Nimcha even if it misses the full set of quillions (of which the guard). The profile of the handle is the same that the one of a Nimcha.
This type of work on silver was and is again nowadays done by the jew community of the casbash. Prudently, i would say late XIX°, early XX°. Why not before?? But, the blade would tell more for its datation.

Best for you.
Louis-Pierre

Thanks for the assessment.
I know the guard's a bad supplement.
But the silver work is like the decoration of "Türken Beute" Weapons(17 early 18 century ).Even the shape of the blade could be early ?
It looks like niello work?
Is that possible?
Best
Kurt

[LPCA]

Hi Kurt,

difficult to say something on the blade as details are missing and the image does not help much. The shape could be from 17 to 19°.

Of course, Moroccan Jews also knew the work of niello. But here they seem to have used a more traditional technique in Morocco. Either a silver plate is engraved with patterns, either 2 silver plates are welded together. The top plate is first cut with patterns and then plated (soldered) on a silver plate as a support. This creates a relief that highlighted by shading the visible parts of the support plate. This work is often seen on Koumiya.

See U.
Louis-Pierre

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, I cannot add much to the already full and excellent discussion ...except...Nim means half in Baluchi and they take that from the Persian as noted in a previous detailed thread. It is not an Arabic word but again that is already discussed... so ...

This is a Zanzibari Nimcha. Not the cloisonned Algerian version nor the classic Magreb style. As Jim was saying in this and other related Nimcha threads these swords started life in Italian or Venetian roots. There are other variants including the Saudi item and cheaper hilted Yemeni variants but the one which makes ones eyes sparkle is the Omani or Zanzibari version ... When people say Omani Nimcha what they actually mean is Zanzibari (as already noted Oman owned it for a considerable period and it even became for a time the Omani capital !)

Apart from the obvious, there are two clues to origin;

1. The Hilt of Ivory.
2. The decorative gold Hilt pattern style.

Zanzibari traders favoured the Ivory hilt on their Nimchas...Being a trading hub for all things African, Zanzibar was well placed for the Ivory trade.

The decorative gold style is Indo/ Persian "Miri Bota" leaf pattern. Not likely to be done on a Nimcha other than a Zanzibari Nimcha. More than likely craftsmen from India worked in Zanzibar and the decoration was either done there or in India from which much trade exchanged with the Zanzibaris.

I have to add that the Nimcha puzzle is or has been one of the most difficult to crack open... and thanks to the Forum it is now somewhat clearer.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.