Mythological Info wanted

Amuk Murugul · 29th July 2011, 02:49 AM

Hullo everybody,

Mark, as Alan says, there are always many variations to the wayang stories.
In this case, for instance, one variation has Siwa sending a 'magician' to give Arjuna the order.

As for 'Togogon', I have no idea. Is it tied in with the wayang stories?
If so, then it may refer to Togog, in which case here is my understanding of the relevant story:

In the beginning ..... during the time of kadewatan, Togog/Antaga was born as grandson to the ruler of Heaven. However, Togog was not comfortable with his existence and returned to his 'never-born' state. Sometime later he was born together with Semar/Kuda Pawana/Ismaya. Siwa/Manikmaya/Batara Guru was their younger brother.

When the time came for the ruler of Heaven to choose the next ruler from one of the grandsons, a contest was set up and the winner would be the next ruler.
The contest was to see who could swallow the mountain Jamurdipa whole and then regurgitate it whole.
Togog was the first to try but failed, when the active volcano erupted in his mouth, splitting his cheeks.
Semar tried next. He swallowed the mountain but could not regurgitate it.
Since the object of the test could no longer be present, Siwa was declared the winner by default.

Togog is often depicted with large round, bulging eyes, a flat nose, a 'peaked' hairdo and a very wide 'frog-like' mouth to depict his split cheeks. In profile, he could be mistaken for a frog. I have even seen him painted 'reddish'.
Both Togog and Semar are sometimes depicted with single front teeth.

Incidentally, while Siwa reigned in Heaven, Semar was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were good, while Togog was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were bad.

I hope some of this is relevant.

Best,

P.S. Sorry, I just had a thought.
Could the word actually be 'Togogan"?
In which case it could mean 'in the style of a togog'; where 'togog' is a decorative sculpted head, often festooned with flowers.

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 03:19 AM

Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence.

In Balinese a "togog" is a statue.

The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.

Amuk Murugul · 29th July 2011, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence.

In Balinese a "togog" is a statue.

The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.

Hullo Alan,

Thanks for that!
I guess I became blinkered by the 'mythology' aspect.

Best,

A. G. Maisey · 29th July 2011, 11:42 PM

This is what the Demon Frog looks like.

He's got the overall form of a frog, but a pig's snout and demon's teeth.

Not a real nice sort of bloke.

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2011, 01:09 AM

I have a good friend who also happens to be one of the greats of the keris world. He has lived in Indonesia for extended periods of time, and that includes living in Bali for a number of years. His knowledge of things Balinese is probably quite a bit better than my own.

So, I had this brilliant idea. I though:- how about if I refer this Demon Frog query to me old mate?

Which I did.

And the answer came directed in a writing unexpected,

And I think the same was written on a keyboard dipped in bile

( Sorry Banjo -- couldn't help meself)

Stripped of extraneous comment it was this:-

answers to difficult questions are not like bananas:- they do not grow on trees.

This is a difficult question; the frog togogan has been in Holland for a very long time and will have been looked at by curators who would have searched for a name. But no name has been found.

So, I guess we're just going to have to get along without a name for our little froggy friend.

Rick · 2nd August 2011, 01:35 AM

I'm not sure why; but I am smiling at the response; tickles a chord in my memory .

A. G. Maisey · 2nd August 2011, 02:28 AM

This might cause you to smile more Rick.

Australian bush poetry by our acknowledged greatest bush poet.

http://www.wallisandmatilda.com.au/c...overflow.shtml

29th July 2011, 02:49 AM	#1
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo everybody, Mark, as Alan says, there are always many variations to the wayang stories. In this case, for instance, one variation has Siwa sending a 'magician' to give Arjuna the order. As for 'Togogon', I have no idea. Is it tied in with the wayang stories? If so, then it may refer to Togog, in which case here is my understanding of the relevant story: In the beginning ..... during the time of kadewatan, Togog/Antaga was born as grandson to the ruler of Heaven. However, Togog was not comfortable with his existence and returned to his 'never-born' state. Sometime later he was born together with Semar/Kuda Pawana/Ismaya. Siwa/Manikmaya/Batara Guru was their younger brother. When the time came for the ruler of Heaven to choose the next ruler from one of the grandsons, a contest was set up and the winner would be the next ruler. The contest was to see who could swallow the mountain Jamurdipa whole and then regurgitate it whole. Togog was the first to try but failed, when the active volcano erupted in his mouth, splitting his cheeks. Semar tried next. He swallowed the mountain but could not regurgitate it. Since the object of the test could no longer be present, Siwa was declared the winner by default. Togog is often depicted with large round, bulging eyes, a flat nose, a 'peaked' hairdo and a very wide 'frog-like' mouth to depict his split cheeks. In profile, he could be mistaken for a frog. I have even seen him painted 'reddish'. Both Togog and Semar are sometimes depicted with single front teeth. Incidentally, while Siwa reigned in Heaven, Semar was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were good, while Togog was sent to earth as counsel/guide/mentor for those who were bad. I hope some of this is relevant. Best, P.S. Sorry, I just had a thought. Could the word actually be 'Togogan"? In which case it could mean 'in the style of a togog'; where 'togog' is a decorative sculpted head, often festooned with flowers. Last edited by Amuk Murugul; 29th July 2011 at 03:21 AM.

29th July 2011, 11:42 PM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This is what the Demon Frog looks like. He's got the overall form of a frog, but a pig's snout and demon's teeth. Not a real nice sort of bloke. Attached Images

2nd August 2011, 01:09 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	I have a good friend who also happens to be one of the greats of the keris world. He has lived in Indonesia for extended periods of time, and that includes living in Bali for a number of years. His knowledge of things Balinese is probably quite a bit better than my own. So, I had this brilliant idea. I though:- how about if I refer this Demon Frog query to me old mate? Which I did. And the answer came directed in a writing unexpected, And I think the same was written on a keyboard dipped in bile ( Sorry Banjo -- couldn't help meself) Stripped of extraneous comment it was this:- answers to difficult questions are not like bananas:- they do not grow on trees. This is a difficult question; the frog togogan has been in Holland for a very long time and will have been looked at by curators who would have searched for a name. But no name has been found. So, I guess we're just going to have to get along without a name for our little froggy friend. Last edited by A. G. Maisey; 2nd August 2011 at 02:26 AM. Reason: missing word

29th July 2011, 03:19 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Amuk, in Javanese a "togog" is a fence post that is at the corner of a fence. In Balinese a "togog" is a statue. The togog or togogan that Mark is referring to is the Balinese keris holder in the form of a statue, that used to be placed near the front door so visitors could leave their keris there when they went inside the house.

2nd August 2011, 01:35 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I'm not sure why; but I am smiling at the response; tickles a chord in my memory .

2nd August 2011, 02:28 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	This might cause you to smile more Rick. Australian bush poetry by our acknowledged greatest bush poet. http://www.wallisandmatilda.com.au/c...overflow.shtml