Old (?) Madurese keris/Pamor Ron Gendhuru Winengku

Marcokeris · 24th June 2011, 10:07 PM

Pamor seems an opposite Ron Genduru (the same of a negative photo)

Sajen · 25th June 2011, 01:41 PM

Yes, so far you can see it on the pictures seems the blade "natural worn" and seems to have age. Pamor ron kendhuru, agree with Marco.

Regards,

Detlef

David · 25th June 2011, 03:50 PM

To me this "feels" like a nice contemporary blade that has been artificially aged. I realize that a "feeling" or instinct is not the most convincing method in an academic setting, but then again, the Warung is a coffeehouse after all.

If i held it in my hand i might get a different feeling from it. If i saw different photos it's possible i might have another opinion. This game of making judgements based upon digital images on a screen is always going to be a tricky one.
Even you seem to question the age at least somewhat or you wouldn't have asked for opinions on that aspect, though it is, of course, obvious that you would like the blade to have some real age. Who wouldn't?
The one thing i would do is consider both the source and the price paid. We do most often get what we pay for with most things. You would certainly expect to pay a pretty penny for a 19th century version of this pamor that is this well executed. A contemporary version, not nearly as much. Of course those sleeper deals do still exist. Did you buy this from a dealer or was it something found at a flea market of perhaps sitting in some old lady's attic for years? If it came from a dealer what did they tell you on age? How trustworthy are they? and even if they are trustworthy in your eyes even honest dealers can themselves be mislead and pass on incorrect info.

Gustav · 26th June 2011, 11:22 AM

David, thank you very much for your comment, you could be wright about it.

I calculated of course myself the possibility the blade could be new, actually about 75%. As Alan wrote, old blades with an elaborate pamor are very, very rare. I grumbled very long, if I could take this risk. I decided to do it, becouse I wanted to see and to study such pamor "live".

Here the somewhat better pictures I managed to take, for reference.

Sajen · 26th June 2011, 02:39 PM

I understand now better!

When the much better pictures don't lying I would hope maybe as well to get a very good old blade.

Regards,

Detlef

dewaruci · 12th July 2011, 06:32 PM

I thought the full name pamor 'ron kenduru wengkon", and I have one new keris in my colection, the blade from madura ( i ordered through my friend from madura), and one old keris pamor 'ron kenduru'

Gustav · 13th July 2011, 10:00 AM

Thank you, Dewaruci, for posting these keris. The new keris has remarkably good pamor control at the tip, such perfection probably wasn't achievable with old pamor forging methods.

26th June 2011, 11:22 AM	#4
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	David, thank you very much for your comment, you could be wright about it. I calculated of course myself the possibility the blade could be new, actually about 75%. As Alan wrote, old blades with an elaborate pamor are very, very rare. I grumbled very long, if I could take this risk. I decided to do it, becouse I wanted to see and to study such pamor "live". Here the somewhat better pictures I managed to take, for reference. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 26th June 2011 at 01:06 PM. Reason: pictures added

12th July 2011, 06:32 PM	#6
dewaruci Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Central Java Posts: 13	I thought the full name pamor 'ron kenduru wengkon", and I have one new keris in my colection, the blade from madura ( i ordered through my friend from madura), and one old keris pamor 'ron kenduru' Attached Images

24th June 2011, 10:07 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Pamor seems an opposite Ron Genduru (the same of a negative photo)

25th June 2011, 01:41 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,337	Yes, so far you can see it on the pictures seems the blade "natural worn" and seems to have age. Pamor ron kendhuru, agree with Marco. Regards, Detlef

25th June 2011, 03:50 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	To me this "feels" like a nice contemporary blade that has been artificially aged. I realize that a "feeling" or instinct is not the most convincing method in an academic setting, but then again, the Warung is a coffeehouse after all. If i held it in my hand i might get a different feeling from it. If i saw different photos it's possible i might have another opinion. This game of making judgements based upon digital images on a screen is always going to be a tricky one. Even you seem to question the age at least somewhat or you wouldn't have asked for opinions on that aspect, though it is, of course, obvious that you would like the blade to have some real age. Who wouldn't? The one thing i would do is consider both the source and the price paid. We do most often get what we pay for with most things. You would certainly expect to pay a pretty penny for a 19th century version of this pamor that is this well executed. A contemporary version, not nearly as much. Of course those sleeper deals do still exist. Did you buy this from a dealer or was it something found at a flea market of perhaps sitting in some old lady's attic for years? If it came from a dealer what did they tell you on age? How trustworthy are they? and even if they are trustworthy in your eyes even honest dealers can themselves be mislead and pass on incorrect info.

26th June 2011, 02:39 PM	#5
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,337	I understand now better! When the much better pictures don't lying I would hope maybe as well to get a very good old blade. Regards, Detlef

13th July 2011, 10:00 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Thank you, Dewaruci, for posting these keris. The new keris has remarkably good pamor control at the tip, such perfection probably wasn't achievable with old pamor forging methods.