Klewang Sumatra

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Rick

I never saw a pommel like the one at the bottom of the picture on one of these swords .

I'm guessing it is a found, natural shape that resembles the traditional form .
There could be some talismanic value to having one of these free form hilts .

I believe they are rare and highly prized in the world of keris .

The hilt To me is a dead ringer for the Makara seen on the Sosun Patta I have, the others look to me in profile to be the cockatoo. I'd suggest the lower one shows more Hindu influence around these Islands. I'd also suggest they are carved this way....

Gav

[KuKulzA28]

Hindu influence? What makes you say that?

I'm not yet very good at differentiating different stylistic differences that could be attributed to Islamic, Hindu, or local beliefs...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

Hindu influence? What makes you say that?

I'm not yet very good at differentiating different stylistic differences that could be attributed to Islamic, Hindu, or local beliefs...

Vinny,

I note it because of the hilt shape referred to is to me that of the Makara;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makara_(Hindu_mythology)

See also the image attached.

This text is translated text from Wiki;

"Before the entry of Islam, the people who inhabit the island of Lombok in a row of belief animism , dynamism and Hindu"

I understand aspects of the old Hindu culture is still present in places and more so I would suggest in the age of these swords.

Gav

[KuKulzA28]

I see... I wonder why they chose Makara as a popular motif on swords, perhaps because of the fierceness of crocodiles... Did the coming and popularity of Islam start to change the Hindu and animist stylistic elements of the weapons? I've heard that Islamic beliefs forbid the carving of idols, animals, etc. on hilt - not sure if it's true.

The sword hilt you just provided an image for - is that a very reduced and stylized form of Makara?

[David]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

I see... I wonder why they chose Makara as a popular motif on swords, perhaps because of the fierceness of crocodiles...

AFAIK the makara is not a crocodile per se, but i mythological hybrid sea creature that is part croc as well as elephant (see trunk element) and fish. Still probably considered as "fierce" though...

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by KuKulzA28

The sword hilt you just provided an image for - is that a very reduced and stylized form of Makara?

I believe so when you view some of the imagery within the link previously you will also see simplified imagery of the Makara...more suitable for a working weapon I feel.

[KuKulzA28]

I notice a lot of silver on klewangs and pedangs of this style... though not all have it, many do. Is this because most were made for wealthier warriors or royalty? Or is it because many of the surviving antiques were from richer folks? (Implying most were much plainer)...

Originally Posted by David

AFAIK the makara is not a crocodile per se, but i mythological hybrid sea creature that is part croc as well as elephant (see trunk element) and fish. Still probably considered as "fierce" though...

Originally Posted by freebooter

I believe so when you view some of the imagery within the link previously you will also see simplified imagery of the Makara...more suitable for a working weapon I feel.

Both duly noted, thanks.