Kattara for comments

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

By hawkshead hilt, Ibrahim means the arabic Karabella. These are often flagged as yemeni but lately am considering that they might be omani or shared by both regions.

SALAAMS ...Indeed they do get called Yemeni and it could be that is where they were traded in from. Good point on the Karbella ! Thanks !!

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Ibrahiim,
More on the 'karabela':
From: "Polish Sabres:Their Origins and Evolution", Jan Ostroski, in
"Art , Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, 1979, pp.220-237.

The hilt form known as karabela, was also widely known as 'the Polish Sabre'.
"...the oldest available karabelas now in Poland are known to have been captured at Vienna in 1683, and hence originated in Turkey, probably under Persian influence, at the beginning of the 17th century. Within a short time it became more popular in Poland than it had ever been in Turkey or Hungary."

In "The Arms and Armour of Arabia", Robert Elgood, 1994, p.15, a sword found in the suqs of Riyadh described as follows, "...the hilt is like the karabella in form with silver sheet or other netal partly covering the grip made of wood or horn. The Arab traders say these are acquired in the Yemen. **

** as noted

The so called karabela hilt became popular in Persia in the early 17th century and Shah Abbas I can be seen wearing a sword with this hilt in miniature paintings. Because of the close trade and political links between Persia and Poland, which were in alliance against the Ottomans, and the adaption of Persian culture at court, the sword became extremely popular in Poland".

Elgood further notes that in 1623 Shah Abbas had occupied Baghdad and in taking control of areas including the city of Karbala, suggesting that the name for the sword hilt was in memory of that campaign.He also cites Nadolski ('Polish Side Arms') who states that there was considerable export of these type swords in later 17th early 18th c. entering the Persian Gulf trade, with many of course arriving in Arabia.

Also discussed are these shorter combat swords 'nim sha' which indeed were ideal for maritime use and well known in the Arab trade world. I know that many of these have the 'karabela' type hilt form and are wire wrapped at the neck of the hilt as are Persian shamshirs. In Arabia, Persian swords and blades are held in the highest esteem.

While these references illustrate the probable sources of the karabela style hilts in Arabia, there is still the question of the cylindrical or guardless Omani long kattara and its origins. The examples of leather covered guardless swords posted do seem to reflect in degree a certain recognition of the Caucasian shashka, but really it seems again, a tenous connection and likely a simple hilt solution to the use of the sabre blades which came not only from the Caucusus but other European sources as well. These kinds of swords with sabre blades are well known with Bedouin tribesmen even into the Sinai.

The simple open hilt Omani 'long kattara' seems likely also a product of simplistic hilting of these longer trade blades to be used as described with the buckler. The more decorative and silver mounted versions were likely of course for prominant and status conscious Omani merchants and officials.

All the best,
Jim

[kahnjar1]

Thought I would add a little in the way of pics to this thread since the term Karabela has surfaced. I have such an item of Yemeni origin with that type of hilt. Have also added a couple of pics of a straight and a curved Omani Kattara, both of which have appeared in different threads of this Forum. Also a pic of a Terrs buckler which I have in my collection.
Regards Stuart

[kahnjar1]

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

Salaams, Archers is Mendingo and the other with the Sultan is kattara. Thats not "Tippu Sultan".. that may have been a misleading comment by me ... Tippu tip al swahili was a slave trader (there was a tipu sultan but he was off another generation altogether from India not related)

Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

The photo may be one of the Zanzibari sultans like Barghash or whoever but anyway that is an Omani Kattara...with a hole in the pommel !!

I think what may be important here is that the link with African swords to the Omani Kattara is being dismantled and it may be that the Kattara is a thoroughbred Omani system coupled with the buckler Terss shield and possibly pre-dating previous estimates and dwarfing age estimates by possibly 500 years !! since it is engrained in the historical cultural Omani tradition by way of a sword and shield war dance.

My estimate is 9th century inspired from the Oman Coast, war, trade and slavery and by the fact of the traditional dance.

I think what is also slowly dawning is the suposition that the Omani Short Battle Sword may be well and truly ancient predating previous estimates by several centuries as a staggering 8th Century weapon copied from the Abbasid.

What clouds the issue on the Long Kattara is the abundance of european blades though presumeably the original blade was similar ?? Im not even sure that looking at the blade is all that relevant ~ it is the hilt and the shield which seem to be more an important flag on origin and the cultural aspect of a traditional war dance which takes ages before it becomes imprinted as a national iconic structure.

By the way do you notice the brass escutcheons on the front of the Buckler ?... They are for securing the handle and for disarming with a twist the opponents sword.

I think I should put on record the number of different swords on this long hilt is vast...both straight, double edged, single edged, zig zag blades, slight curved, and very curved and in my collection alone there are lots... so a picture should be seen displaying that conundrum~

That alone underpins how difficult it is to trace back the origin of species of the Omani Kattara and the oldest picture(photo) I have seen is about 1860. If anyone has any older photos or pictures I would appreciate that.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Stasa Katz]

If one is curious about trade and travel routes in the Islamic world in the 14th Century CE, there are many great maps in Dunn's book, The Adventures of Ibn Battuta.

Battuta travelled between Yemen and East Africa, and much later, by camel caravan from Tunisia into the Sahel, hence to Mali and back.

He also went through Anatolia, Mesopotamia, the steppes, Afghanistan, Sindh, and lived in India.

Dunn gives maps for Battuta's various itineraries, describing the modes of transport and times needed.

There is no information given about travel across central Africa between the East and Mali, as Battuta did not take that route.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dunn+...-1&btnG=Search
But one can get an idea of how very many travel routes existed throughout Dal al Islam, for trade and for making the Haj.

Blades and technicians would have circulated far and wide.

One very great discovery was managing boat traffic across the Indian ocean by exploiting the monsoon patterns. India, Muskat/Oman, Yemen/Hadramaut and Mogodishu and surrounding ports would have been well connected.

Even though Dunn offers an overview, his book is very readable and the maps are a big help.

[ariel]

Omitted: see new thread

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Note to Library; Odd stamp .. Stag.

Small Curved Omani KATTARA ... The blade apparently a European style ..heavy back edge on an Omani long hilt. Spotted in Buraimi Souk recently.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=12242
The plot thickens.................. Refer to above link where Kattara were also discussed. ARCHER posted pics of a sword with "knobs" on the top of the hilt. This was (I think) eventually identified as Manding, but take a look at the sword held by Sultan Tipu! Looks remarkably similar.
So what do the Members think now..............? Is ARCHER'S sword in fact a Kattara?

Salaams, Archers is Mendingo and the other with the Sultan is kattara. Thats not "Tippu Sultan".. that may have been a misleading comment by me ... Tippu tip al swahili was a slave trader (there was a tipu sultan but he was off another generation altogether from India not related)

Tippu Tip or Tib (1837 - June 14, 1905), real name Hamad bin Muḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Muḥammad bin Sa‘īd al-Murghabī, (Arabic: حمد بن محمد بن جمعة بن رجب بن محمد بن سعيد المرجبي‎), was a Swahili-Zanzibari trader of mixed descent. He was famously known as Tippu Tib after an eye disease which made him blind. A notorious slave trader, plantation owner and governor, who worked for a succession of sultans of Zanzibar, he led many trading expeditions into east-central Africa, involving the slave trade and ivory trade. He constructed profitable trading posts that reached deep into Central Africa.

The photo may be one of the Zanzibari sultans like Barghash or whoever but anyway that is an Omani Kattara...with a hole in the pommel !!

I think what may be important here is that the link with African swords to the Omani Kattara is being dismantled and it may be that the Kattara is a thoroughbred Omani system coupled with the buckler Terss shield and possibly pre-dating previous estimates and dwarfing age estimates by possibly 500 years !! since it is engrained in the historical cultural Omani tradition by way of a sword and shield war dance.

My estimate is 9th century inspired from the Oman Coast, war, trade and slavery and by the fact of the traditional dance.

I think what is also slowly dawning is the suposition that the Omani Short Battle Sword may be well and truly ancient predating previous estimates by several centuries as a staggering 8th Century weapon copied from the Abbasid.

What clouds the issue on the Long Kattara is the abundance of european blades though presumeably the original blade was similar ?? Im not even sure that looking at the blade is all that relevant ~ it is the hilt and the shield which seem to be more an important flag on origin and the cultural aspect of a traditional war dance which takes ages before it becomes imprinted as a national iconic structure.

By the way do you notice the brass escutcheons on the front of the Buckler ?... They are for securing the handle and for disarming with a twist the opponents sword.

I think I should put on record the number of different swords on this long hilt is vast...both straight, double edged, single edged, zig zag blades, slight curved, and very curved and in my collection alone there are lots... so a picture should be seen displaying that conundrum~

That alone underpins how difficult it is to trace back the origin of species of the Omani Kattara and the oldest picture(photo) I have seen is about 1860. If anyone has any older photos or pictures I would appreciate that.

Regards Ibrahiim.

[Jim McDougall]

Outstanding Stu!! Thats exactly the example of Yemeni sword I was thinking of!
Nicely explained summation of the discussion to date and reiteration of what we are closer to agreeing on the development of these swords Ibrahiim. Thank you for providing all the detail on Tipu Tib as well, as the slave trade seems key to much of the diffusion involved here, and it is well established that Zanzibar was one of the busy if not key East African centers.

With this I wanted to reassert my thoughts on the idea that the Mandingo sabre hilt form may well be connected to these Omani kattara (long) through these slave trade routes. I agree that the sword shown by Archer in the linked thread is Mandingo, with similar hilt shape to kattara, but note the ring around the leather wrapped grip midpoint, and the spherical knob atip the grip is of course different than the squared Omani pommel (with aperture). I would reemphasize that I believe the influence in Mandingo swords reflected probably the Omani type swords.

The Trans Saharan trade routes crossed through Timbuktu, in Mali, and it is worthy of note that the Mandingo settlements in Burkina Faso and Mali were built around these long distance trade routes. In these regions these were contolled by the Mandingo people known as Dyula (Manding=merchant). It would seem reasonable that Omani swords travelling with these long distance caravans, including probably some slaves destined for Morocco (and likely with Omani overseers and merchants factors) as one key terminus, may have deeply influenced the Dyula. As noted, these kattara were esteemed symbols of status for the Omani merchants, and it would seem that thier Saharan counterparts would seek to emulate these probably keenly noted swords in thier own interpretation.

The example shown by Archer seems to reflect deeply the Omani form hilt, and has the typical Saharan broadsword blade seen on takouba, and in the larger examples on kaskara, instead of the typical European sabre blades.
It is also interesting that these triple fullered blades are seen on the cylindrically hilted swords of Sierra Leone as well, again with local hilting being favored, in this case with rondel type hilt.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Ibrahiim,
More on the 'karabela':
From: "Polish Sabres:Their Origins and Evolution", Jan Ostroski, in
"Art , Arms & Armour" ed. Robert Held, 1979, pp.220-237.

The hilt form known as karabela, was also widely known as 'the Polish Sabre'.
"...the oldest available karabelas now in Poland are known to have been captured at Vienna in 1683, and hence originated in Turkey, probably under Persian influence, at the beginning of the 17th century. Within a short time it became more popular in Poland than it had ever been in Turkey or Hungary."

In "The Arms and Armour of Arabia", Robert Elgood, 1994, p.15, a sword found in the suqs of Riyadh described as follows, "...the hilt is like the karabella in form with silver sheet or other netal partly covering the grip made of wood or horn. The Arab traders say these are acquired in the Yemen. **

** as noted

The so called karabela hilt became popular in Persia in the early 17th century and Shah Abbas I can be seen wearing a sword with this hilt in miniature paintings. Because of the close trade and political links between Persia and Poland, which were in alliance against the Ottomans, and the adaption of Persian culture at court, the sword became extremely popular in Poland".

Elgood further notes that in 1623 Shah Abbas had occupied Baghdad and in taking control of areas including the city of Karbala, suggesting that the name for the sword hilt was in memory of that campaign.He also cites Nadolski ('Polish Side Arms') who states that there was considerable export of these type swords in later 17th early 18th c. entering the Persian Gulf trade, with many of course arriving in Arabia.

Also discussed are these shorter combat swords 'nim sha' which indeed were ideal for maritime use and well known in the Arab trade world. I know that many of these have the 'karabela' type hilt form and are wire wrapped at the neck of the hilt as are Persian shamshirs. In Arabia, Persian swords and blades are held in the highest esteem.

While these references illustrate the probable sources of the karabela style hilts in Arabia, there is still the question of the cylindrical or guardless Omani long kattara and its origins. The examples of leather covered guardless swords posted do seem to reflect in degree a certain recognition of the Caucasian shashka, but really it seems again, a tenous connection and likely a simple hilt solution to the use of the sabre blades which came not only from the Caucusus but other European sources as well. These kinds of swords with sabre blades are well known with Bedouin tribesmen even into the Sinai.

The simple open hilt Omani 'long kattara' seems likely also a product of simplistic hilting of these longer trade blades to be used as described with the buckler. The more decorative and silver mounted versions were likely of course for prominant and status conscious Omani merchants and officials.

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, I can't disagree with a single point.

It appears that there were a number of sword species in Oman concurrently viz;

1. The Omani Short Battle Sword.
2a. The Omani Kattara/ Buckler.
2b. Long curved single edged rigid pointed Sayfs on Kattara hilts.
2c. Long curved double edged pointed Sayfs on Kattara hilts.
3. Curved short variants; European, Caucaz, Polish, "Karabella", "Shasqa" seagoing swords.
4a. "Nimcha" Zanzibari Omani weapons long mistaken for Moroccan swords.
4b. Hilted, as above, with imported blades various.

In addition there are other variants that perhaps dont quite make it into the pool such as Shamshir or African bladed swords(european imports ) on Tulvar handles, some with fake running wolf marks etc

It appears that both the Omani Short and Omani Long kattara were selected as icons or badge of office worn by Sultans and VIPs (as were Shamshirs). These were often adorned with silver and gold decoration etc...and though they were weapons they were not accompanied(in the case of the Kattara) with the Terrs Buckler Shield... but the weapon often slung on the belt in the long trail position.

The Omani Short Battle Sword; I argue, is related to the Abbasid and is put at 8th Century which although it is an astonishing date is a result of the Abbasid century of attendance in Oman before they were ousted. The early date is incredible because it can also be seen on the Zanzibar Sultan Barghash in about 1895. First introduced in the 8th Century !

The Omani Long Kattara; The long shafted unguarded hilt, conical and flat ending in a counterbalanced pommel with a hole, the handle either leathered and or silver stitched in flat silver thread in a variety of geometric patterns. The fight system accompanied by a buckler shield made from Rhino ( or other thick African animal hide ) and developed with a martial dance. I suggest and argue that it was not copied nor developed from an African sword but unrelated as an Omani system designed to be fought with a Buckler. Perhaps designed in Oman around the 9th Century !

The rest they say... "is history".

Regards Ibrahiim Al Balooshi.