Bhutan sword with chromed blade: advice needed

Atlantia · 4th May 2011, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Over the years I have had a number of different blades with plating, usually chrome plating, but on a couple of occasions I seem to recall it was nickel.

In all cases I dismounted the blade and gave it to a plater to reverse the process and remove the plating.

In all cases the removal was totally satisfactory.

After the plating had been removed I did a light polish with wet and dry paper and etched.

The results of the etching were not always all that pleasing. On a couple of occasions I finished up with truly excellent blades of mechanical damascus and another of wootz; some khukris had blades that were composed of haphazardly welded bits and pieces; a couple of blades were mild steel or iron with no pattern at all. One jambiya was revealed as total junk--- the rib down the middle of the blade was a line of electric welding.

If the plating on this Bhutan blade were to be removed it could be a win, or it could be a loss.

Thats a very interesting thought Alan.
Reverse electro-plating. I know a chap who uses a similar process of reverse electrolosis to remove Verdi Gris from ancient coins while his is on archeological digs. He's made a 'kit' that works off of the car cigarette lighter (with a jam-jar of something to dip the coin and electrodes in I think) I wonder if a home kit could be made for removing chrome/nickel?

I'll be seeing him this weekend, I'll see if he has any idea of how it could be adapted.

Best
Gene

katana · 4th May 2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Thats a very interesting thought Alan.
Reverse electro-plating. I know a chap who uses a similar process of reverse electrolosis to remove Verdi Gris from ancient coins while his is on archeological digs. He's made a 'kit' that works off of the car cigarette lighter (with a jam-jar of something to dip the coin and electrodes in I think) I wonder if a home kit could be made for removing chrome/nickel?

I'll be seeing him this weekend, I'll see if he has any idea of how it could be adapted.

Best
Gene

Hi Gene,
found this on an engineering forum........

The proceedure is very much the same as removing rust but with different chemical. First, degrease completely and scrub thoroughly with detergent. Mix 1 cup of Muriatic acid with 3 gallons of water in a plastic bucket. NOTE; ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER. NEVER WATER TO ACID !!! (It WILL explode) Hang two or three copper wires (#12 or larger) around sides of bucket. Connect these to ground of battery charger. Hang item to be dechromed in fluid with positive lead connected. Be sure part doesn"t touch ground wires. Within a few seconds or minutes, depending on thickness of chrome, it should come clean. More or less time as required. When finnished, wash parts in mild soda water solution to nutralize acid. (Do this right way to prevent rust) As with any caustic acid, handle with care.

I would add that the fumes are 'unhealthy'

so should be done in a well ventilated area.

I should also add that by lowering the concentration of acid, the de-chroming would be slower and more controlable.

Kind Regards David

Atlantia · 4th May 2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

Hi Gene,
found this on an engineering forum........

The proceedure is very much the same as removing rust but with different chemical. First, degrease completely and scrub thoroughly with detergent. Mix 1 cup of Muriatic acid with 3 gallons of water in a plastic bucket. NOTE; ALWAYS ADD ACID TO WATER. NEVER WATER TO ACID !!! (It WILL explode) Hang two or three copper wires (#12 or larger) around sides of bucket. Connect these to ground of battery charger. Hang item to be dechromed in fluid with positive lead connected. Be sure part doesn"t touch ground wires. Within a few seconds or minutes, depending on thickness of chrome, it should come clean. More or less time as required. When finnished, wash parts in mild soda water solution to nutralize acid. (Do this right way to prevent rust) As with any caustic acid, handle with care.

I would add that the fumes are 'unhealthy'

so should be done in a well ventilated area.

I should also add that by lowering the concentration of acid, the de-chroming would be slower and more controlable.

Kind Regards David

Excellent! Did I mention that whoever finds the details needs to be the first to try it?

Gene

Tatyana Dianova · 4th May 2011, 08:05 PM

Alex: thanks for sharing the pictures; they illustrate very well what Alan says. I believe you've used electrolytic method? It looks promising but I would better find a specialist...
Alan: I was almost sure I should leave the blade as it is, but now...
And to illustrate the Dennee's point about the pommel decoration a couple of pictures of the older piece. White metal mounts, recycled sword blade

A. G. Maisey · 5th May 2011, 02:06 AM

Here are pics of a knife that came to me more than 40 years ago as a piece of junk --- no hilt plates, no guard, no pommel, badly chromed blade.

I got rid of the chrome by giving it to a plater as described.

I gave it a rough polish , rehilted, gave it a sheath, and used it to kill pigs that we ran down up in the Moree lignum.

It is not wootz, nor mechanical damascus, but it does have a folded and welded blade that holds a very good edge and has high tensile strength.

Atlantia · 5th May 2011, 06:23 PM

Tatyana,

I thought these might interest you, notice in particular the gold areas on the silver parts of the dagger hilt:
Page 185 swords and Hilt weapons.
'Eighteenth century dagger and scabbard, possibly Bhutanese, and a sword and scabbard possibly of eighteenth century date. The latter are decorated in the Tibetan 'plain style'; the Bhutanese attribution is purely conventional.'

dennee · 6th May 2011, 12:22 AM

Contrary to "Swords and Hilt Weapons," I've never bought that the attribution is "purely conventional." Nor would I necessarily call those "Tibetan plain style," whatever that might be (and it might be a lot of things), especially since one is not plain. But while the plainer one has a Bhutanese-style hilt, overall its form does look similar to knives that were common in Lhoka, the Tibetan province north of the Bhutan border.

Sure, the two may not be provenanced, but I think there's pretty clearly a Bhutanese style distinct from styles of central Kham, southern Kham, and Amdo. Without settling or being able to settle whether "Bhutanese"-style swords, knives and scabbards were ever produced in Tibet proper (and they were certainly imported), it's pretty clear that they were produced in Bhutan.

Those two examples have scabbards or sheaths similar to most Tibetan scabbards in that they consist of an outside U frame within which a couple of thin slats of wood, covered with fabric usually, form the sides. But the C-shaped scroll at the toe of the scabbard shows up in these kind of Bhutanese dagger scabbards all the time, typically accompanying a profusion of pierced work. And I don't think that, without evidence to the contrary, these pommels could be called anything other than Bhutanese. Bhutanese pommels themselves were a valuable item.

4th May 2011, 08:05 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Alex: thanks for sharing the pictures; they illustrate very well what Alan says. I believe you've used electrolytic method? It looks promising but I would better find a specialist... Alan: I was almost sure I should leave the blade as it is, but now... And to illustrate the Dennee's point about the pommel decoration a couple of pictures of the older piece. White metal mounts, recycled sword blade Attached Images

5th May 2011, 02:06 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Here are pics of a knife that came to me more than 40 years ago as a piece of junk --- no hilt plates, no guard, no pommel, badly chromed blade. I got rid of the chrome by giving it to a plater as described. I gave it a rough polish , rehilted, gave it a sheath, and used it to kill pigs that we ran down up in the Moree lignum. It is not wootz, nor mechanical damascus, but it does have a folded and welded blade that holds a very good edge and has high tensile strength. Attached Images

5th May 2011, 06:23 PM	#6
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Tatyana, I thought these might interest you, notice in particular the gold areas on the silver parts of the dagger hilt: Page 185 swords and Hilt weapons. 'Eighteenth century dagger and scabbard, possibly Bhutanese, and a sword and scabbard possibly of eighteenth century date. The latter are decorated in the Tibetan 'plain style'; the Bhutanese attribution is purely conventional.' Attached Images

6th May 2011, 12:22 AM	#7
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	Contrary to "Swords and Hilt Weapons," I've never bought that the attribution is "purely conventional." Nor would I necessarily call those "Tibetan plain style," whatever that might be (and it might be a lot of things), especially since one is not plain. But while the plainer one has a Bhutanese-style hilt, overall its form does look similar to knives that were common in Lhoka, the Tibetan province north of the Bhutan border. Sure, the two may not be provenanced, but I think there's pretty clearly a Bhutanese style distinct from styles of central Kham, southern Kham, and Amdo. Without settling or being able to settle whether "Bhutanese"-style swords, knives and scabbards were ever produced in Tibet proper (and they were certainly imported), it's pretty clear that they were produced in Bhutan. Those two examples have scabbards or sheaths similar to most Tibetan scabbards in that they consist of an outside U frame within which a couple of thin slats of wood, covered with fabric usually, form the sides. But the C-shaped scroll at the toe of the scabbard shows up in these kind of Bhutanese dagger scabbards all the time, typically accompanying a profusion of pierced work. And I don't think that, without evidence to the contrary, these pommels could be called anything other than Bhutanese. Bhutanese pommels themselves were a valuable item.