Bronze Dagger

45Auto · 12th July 2005, 08:55 PM

Hi everyone. Sorry I was away from my own post for so long. Thanks for your insight regarding this dagger.

I discussed with the owner your various observations. The owner has some additional information:

The blade and handle are cast of the same metal.

Another collector told the owner that he thought it looked like it came from Tibet. He was told that the writing on the blade may be an early form of Tibetan writing of about 300 + years ago. However, the other collector did not get back with him regardng the writing.

The patina is deaper and does not look applied. There is a sort of blueish oxidation under the bronze oxidation. It appears the dagger was never under the ground, but was more likely kept as a ceramonial item above ground.

Thanks,
Greg

Battara · 12th July 2005, 10:28 PM

Hate to say, I have seen Tibetan script and even old Tibetan script - don't think it is Tibetan. I am more inclined with BluErf - Chinese jibberish.

Also, they stick some of these things in the most acidic soil they can find - the fakers I mean - and can get real looking patina for half of the age. I may be wrong, but I am on the side of a copy.

Best to take it to a museum or "experts" who can see this thing up close and in person.

fearn · 13th July 2005, 12:23 AM

Here's a general source to help with identifying scripts:

http://www.omniglot.com

Rick · 13th July 2005, 12:28 AM

How did you come to purchase this piece .
Friend , ebay , estate sale , antique store , other ?

erlikhan · 13th July 2005, 09:06 AM

Battara, thats very interesting. i knew an artificial,too fresh kind of green patina is given by chemicals, but never thought that it was possible to give better,more natural looking patina under soil in a short time. do u have any picture of such "naturally" patinated fakes? do they look like real bronze age items after the process? how long time does that kind of patination take?
regards

Battara · 13th July 2005, 10:53 PM

It all depends on the soil conditions. Now, under strong magnification, it will be easier to see differences in natural and faked patinas. I would hesitate to give too many details because I don't have the pieces nor pictures with me, and second.....I know (as we on this forum have discussed in earlier posts) there are fakers that peruse this forum to improve their "craft".

I'll just say that I have lost interest in Luristan pieces, for example, because I have seen really good fakes where I could scarcely tell the difference in the green and brown patinas present (probably gave away too much information right there

).

12th July 2005, 08:55 PM	#1
45Auto Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 16	Hi everyone. Sorry I was away from my own post for so long. Thanks for your insight regarding this dagger. I discussed with the owner your various observations. The owner has some additional information: The blade and handle are cast of the same metal. Another collector told the owner that he thought it looked like it came from Tibet. He was told that the writing on the blade may be an early form of Tibetan writing of about 300 + years ago. However, the other collector did not get back with him regardng the writing. The patina is deaper and does not look applied. There is a sort of blueish oxidation under the bronze oxidation. It appears the dagger was never under the ground, but was more likely kept as a ceramonial item above ground. Thanks, Greg Last edited by 45Auto; 12th July 2005 at 09:33 PM.

13th July 2005, 12:28 AM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,365	45 How did you come to purchase this piece . Friend , ebay , estate sale , antique store , other ?

13th July 2005, 09:06 AM	#5
erlikhan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Istanbul Posts: 452	Battara, thats very interesting. i knew an artificial,too fresh kind of green patina is given by chemicals, but never thought that it was possible to give better,more natural looking patina under soil in a short time. do u have any picture of such "naturally" patinated fakes? do they look like real bronze age items after the process? how long time does that kind of patination take? regards Last edited by erlikhan; 13th July 2005 at 11:21 AM.

12th July 2005, 10:28 PM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,323	Hate to say, I have seen Tibetan script and even old Tibetan script - don't think it is Tibetan. I am more inclined with BluErf - Chinese jibberish. Also, they stick some of these things in the most acidic soil they can find - the fakers I mean - and can get real looking patina for half of the age. I may be wrong, but I am on the side of a copy. Best to take it to a museum or "experts" who can see this thing up close and in person.

13th July 2005, 12:23 AM	#3
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Here's a general source to help with identifying scripts: http://www.omniglot.com

13th July 2005, 10:53 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,323	It all depends on the soil conditions. Now, under strong magnification, it will be easier to see differences in natural and faked patinas. I would hesitate to give too many details because I don't have the pieces nor pictures with me, and second.....I know (as we on this forum have discussed in earlier posts) there are fakers that peruse this forum to improve their "craft". I'll just say that I have lost interest in Luristan pieces, for example, because I have seen really good fakes where I could scarcely tell the difference in the green and brown patinas present (probably gave away too much information right there ).