Faca De Ponta.

[Chris Evans]

'Nando,

Great post!

It throws a lot of light on this subject. Oh, how I wish that I could read Portuguese and read that fascinating book.

Gene,

The thing that strikes me most forcibly is that the cross sectional geometry of most of these facas de ponta, as with facons, is rather poor for cutting, rendering them fit mostly thrusting. As fencing weapons they are also rather poor, so that leaves slaughtering, or the more improbable function of piercing armour. Whatever edge they had, I think was there only to facilitate entry.

I also suspect that as with the middle eastern jambiya, these knives were worn mainly as items of dress rather than something to be used in earnest, though no doubt, this happened from time to time.

On another note, you may want to see the 1953 Brazilian film Ocangaceiro, which depicts life amongs these bandits. Have a look in Youtube and you'll find bits of it.

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

'Nando,

Great post!

It throws a lot of light on this subject. Oh, how I wish that I could read Portuguese and read that fascinating book.

Gene,

The thing that strikes me most forcibly is that the cross sectional geometry of most of these facas de ponta, as with facons, is rather poor for cutting, rendering them fit mostly thrusting. As fencing weapons they are also rather poor, so that leaves slaughtering, or the more improbable function of piercing armour. Whatever edge they had, I think was there only to facilitate entry.

I also suspect that as with the middle eastern jambiya, these knives were worn mainly as items of dress rather than something to be used in earnest, though no doubt, this happened from time to time.

On another note, you may want to see the 1953 Brazilian film Ocangaceiro, which depicts life amongs these bandits. Have a look in Youtube and you'll find bits of it.

Cheers
Chris

Excellent, Thanks Chris, I'll take a look.

Both of mine are sharpened on the 'cutting edge' side.
The big one could have been sharpened at a later stage I guess?
The smaller one of mine has an imported German blade and this appears to have an original ground egde (still relatively sharp).
So in the case of that one at least, it seems certain to me that it was retailed with a sharp edge.

It would be interesting to study some 'working' examples.

Also, I notice that in the final photgraph in Fernando's post, there is a 60cm example which appears to be credited to Col Rogerio Dias.
This would be the first of the very big Facas that I have seen credited to a non-bandit.

Best
Gene

[Chris Evans]

Hi Gene,

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Also, I notice that in the final photograph in Fernando's post, there is a 60cm example which appears to be credited to Col Rogerio Dias.
This would be the first of the very big Facas that I have seen credited to a non-bandit.

They must have had a wider market than that of the bandits, whose number was not all that great. To import, wholesale and retail blades, even make them, required a greater demand.

Fernando: Thanks for your very kind offer. Will take you up on it it, as time permits.

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Hi Gene,



They must have had a wider market than that of the bandits, whose number was not all that great. To import, wholesale and retail blades, even make them, required a greater demand.

Fernando: Thanks for your very kind offer. Will take you up on it it, as time permits.

Cheers
Chris

Hi Chris,

Ah yes, the smaller ones for sure. As Nando says, not only gauchos but people in towns, even priests!

Please do share any further translated passages or info you find.

Best
Gene


WARNING. I JUST TRIED TO LOOK AT THE LINK IN NANDOS POST AND AVG SAY THE FILE IS INFECTED.
(I GOT A BIG RED BOX, 'AVG BLOCKED THREAT, FILE INFECTED')
IF YOU'VE OPENED THE LINK, DO A SCAN NOW.

[Chris Evans]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Please do share any further translated passages or info you find.

Have ypou seen this one on Lampiao, written by one of his descendants? http://iaracaju.infonet.com.br/LAMPIAO/index.htm. It is in Portuguese, but can be readily translated by one of the many on line translators.

WARNING. I JUST TRIED TO LOOK AT THE LINK IN NANDOS POST AND AVG SAY THE FILE IS INFECTED.
(I GOT A BIG RED BOX, 'AVG BLOCKED THREAT, FILE INFECTED')
IF YOU'VE OPENED THE LINK, DO A SCAN NOW.

Me too!!!!!

Cheers
Chris

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

Have ypou seen this one on Lampiao, written by one of his descendants? http://iaracaju.infonet.com.br/LAMPIAO/index.htm. It is in Portuguese, but can be readily translated by one of the many on line translators.




Me too!!!!!

Cheers
Chris

Good site Chris.....

I think there is more mileage in this subject so BUMP as well!

[fernando]

Originally Posted by Chris Evans

... Oh, how I wish that I could read Portuguese and read that fascinating book ...

I happen to be able to read portuguese, although i am as non schooled lousy translator .
Eventually i have emailed the post to the Brazilian guy who passed me the book link, himself a credited cuttler, and he said the resume/translation was very good .
If you feel some passages in the book are susceptible to be worthy the translation, try me.
In my resume i foccused more on the typology and some of the vast nomenclature, skipping over the folkloric and social part, proverbs and allegories related to knives and their use, the last two being more idiomatic and producing a more hibrid translation.