sickles/ weapons of other country than India

Billman · 18th March 2011, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michel

Hi Emanuel,
Thanks you for your message and the links.
I did not know that sickles had to have concave edge.
How do you name cutting tools with convex edges ?
In French, my mother tongue, I do not recall a word for sickles with convex cutting edge.
Thanks for the information
Michel

En France les outils for couper le bois se sont appellé la 'serpe', c'est à dire billhook on anglais, mais on trouve aussi les 'faucilles à bois'.... 'La serpe' est aussi utilisé pour les autres outils taillants, comme la serpe à betterave (beet knife en anglais), serpe à tonnellier (un cochoir ou une cauchoire - cooper's knife en anglais)... La serpe est ein Gertel en allemande suisse.....

En France la serpe est concave, etroit, ventré et limande (c'est à dire affutée sur la cote convexe...)

Woodcutting billhooks from France can have concave, straight, bellied or convex blades - they are not all only sharpened on the inner edge...

Images d'une serpe à betterave française, marquée Creuset Saut du Tarn Garanti (a french beet knife made by Creuset from Saut du Tarn)

tom hyle · 18th March 2011, 09:38 PM

wow! Super cool thread. I have started a new job, am poisoned by toxic sewer gas/black mold, am running on pills, have slept 4 1/2 hours in the last three days, so state of exhaution, but I am bound to have things to say later

Very nice!!!

tom hyle · 19th March 2011, 01:10 AM

Interestingly enough, to me, machete is a very major example of a traditional work sword with convex curvature. I do not consider hooked bill-like swords true machetes, nor for that matter are sugar cane knives, nor a variety of other square-tipped work swords to which the term is often applied. To me a true machete is curved backward (ie like a sabre), usually rather slightly, usually mostly at the tip, usually mostly on the true/front/cutting edge.
Good old machetes do have distal taper, and it makes a particularly big difference in using quality in these thin swords.
Billman, I am really enjoying you; you have shown up since I have been gone.
I am glad to see a trend on this forum progressing away from the tradition of arbitrarily misidentifying unkown blades as tourist/decorator pieces, BTW

And then (convexly curved work swords) there is the butcher's scymitar.....

Billman · 20th March 2011, 12:58 PM

And don't forget Blakie's hedge scimitar, as mention in Loudon'e treatise of 1860.. although with a long handle and a hooked blade, this is more of a slasher (hedge trimming bill).... see also slashing knife...

This tool survives virtually unchanged in the vineyards of France, where it is known as a 'serpe à désherber' (or a 'faucille à écimer' or 'dailhot' (region Bordelais)) - often made from a piece of an old scythe blade rivetted to a wooden handle... It is used to remove excess foliage from a vine to allow the plant to put its effort into producing grapes... (see third image - of a professionally made version from Gironde (Bordeaux) in France)

Billman · 20th March 2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I am glad to see a trend on this forum progressing away from the tradition of arbitrarily misidentifying unkown blades as tourist/decorator pieces, BTW

Found these two images on Flikr a few days ago - labelled as vousge, a type of bill or pike, i.e. a pole arm, and thought to be 18th century... They are in a museum in Worcester, Massachusetts, USA.... They are in fact French 'coupes-marc' (singular 'coupe-marc' - also known as a 'hache de chais') - a long handled knife from the Normandy/Britanny regions, used to cut up the 'marc', or residue, (known also as the 'moût' in some regions) of the cider presses. The protuberence on the back of the blade, often bearing the maker's stamp or 'poinçon', readily identifies these as from this part of northern France... Similar (and also axe shaped version - often mis-named as be-heading axes), are also found in the wine growing regions....

The shape of the blade varies widely from region to region.... for anyone interested in Franch tools, I would highly recommend the books of Daniel Boucard, published by Jean Cyrille Godefroy... A page from one of his books showing this tool can be found at: http://www.anciens-outils.com/page_hachesdechais.htm and another at http://img41.xooimage.com/files/4/7/...is-131bda9.jpg

But arms and weapons have greater value than mere agricultural tools.... The comparison picture is from the Musée du Vin (Wine Museum) in Paris, and shows some of the regional blade shapes... and two others with the maker's mark DU CHENE on the blade...

blue lander · 18th December 2013, 05:29 PM

Sorry for digging up such an old thread but I thought I'd post a sickle I bought awhile ago as it's somewhat similar to the "slashing-knife" in the illustration from Billman's post. I assume it's proper ethnographic categorization would be "rusty old American farm implement", but I could be wrong. There's no markings on the blade that I can see. It's hollow ground on one side and flat on the other, and it's bent to one side.

19th March 2011, 01:10 AM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	machete Interestingly enough, to me, machete is a very major example of a traditional work sword with convex curvature. I do not consider hooked bill-like swords true machetes, nor for that matter are sugar cane knives, nor a variety of other square-tipped work swords to which the term is often applied. To me a true machete is curved backward (ie like a sabre), usually rather slightly, usually mostly at the tip, usually mostly on the true/front/cutting edge. Good old machetes do have distal taper, and it makes a particularly big difference in using quality in these thin swords. Billman, I am really enjoying you; you have shown up since I have been gone. I am glad to see a trend on this forum progressing away from the tradition of arbitrarily misidentifying unkown blades as tourist/decorator pieces, BTW And then (convexly curved work swords) there is the butcher's scymitar.....

20th March 2011, 12:58 PM	#4
Billman Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 129	And don't forget Blakie's hedge scimitar, as mention in Loudon'e treatise of 1860.. although with a long handle and a hooked blade, this is more of a slasher (hedge trimming bill).... see also slashing knife... This tool survives virtually unchanged in the vineyards of France, where it is known as a 'serpe à désherber' (or a 'faucille à écimer' or 'dailhot' (region Bordelais)) - often made from a piece of an old scythe blade rivetted to a wooden handle... It is used to remove excess foliage from a vine to allow the plant to put its effort into producing grapes... (see third image - of a professionally made version from Gironde (Bordeaux) in France) Attached Images Last edited by Billman; 20th March 2011 at 01:44 PM.

18th December 2013, 05:29 PM	#6
blue lander Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 456	Sorry for digging up such an old thread but I thought I'd post a sickle I bought awhile ago as it's somewhat similar to the "slashing-knife" in the illustration from Billman's post. I assume it's proper ethnographic categorization would be "rusty old American farm implement", but I could be wrong. There's no markings on the blade that I can see. It's hollow ground on one side and flat on the other, and it's bent to one side. Attached Images

18th March 2011, 09:38 PM	#2
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	wow! Super cool thread. I have started a new job, am poisoned by toxic sewer gas/black mold, am running on pills, have slept 4 1/2 hours in the last three days, so state of exhaution, but I am bound to have things to say later Very nice!!!