Scientific methods

Rich · 5th March 2011, 12:07 PM

Don't know how deep the cartouches are, but with Japanese swords it's common to sprinkle with talc or baby powder, lightly brush or shake it off to enhance the signature. Might (?) work for your blades???

Also maybe a pencil or charcoal rubbing on paper might be more readable than the original on the blade. Just a thought.

Rich S

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2011, 01:29 PM

Hi Rich,

Thanks for coming in on this.

These cartouches are applied gold in the Koftgari manner and worn in places but the incised lines are still present so I am remaining hopeful that there is a method/s that highlights any residue in the grooves to offer a better outline of the writings not seen to the naked eye.
I am going to the stamp shop for a black light to see if this suggested methods works too

Gav

Spunjer · 5th March 2011, 01:34 PM

Hi gav,
Photoshop can do wonders. Sometimes i would see stuff after taking pics on higher megapixels, then enhancing the picture further...

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Hi gav,
Photoshop can do wonders. Sometimes i would see stuff after taking pics on higher megapixels, then enhancing the picture further...

Thanks Ron. I have done this with good results thus far as the residue showed as a nice blue colour on the steel, I was then able to print the image and line draw on the print out from what I viewed on the screen...I will continue to try this method but I fear there are just a few key sections on the edges of the cartouches that I just can't get clear enough....maybe a lot easier if I had an A3 printer rather than the A4 one that everyone seems to have at home.

Gav

mrwizard · 5th March 2011, 02:18 PM

It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Gavin Nugent · 5th March 2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrwizard

It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department.

Best Regards,
Thilo

Hi Thilo, thank you for a great suggestion!
I recently sold an item to a chap in the Physics dept at UQ...I hope he is receptive to the idea and can offer direction.

I'll let you know if I have success with this method.

Gav

fearn · 5th March 2011, 04:23 PM

Hi Gav,

Talc isn't a bad idea. Check out the techniques for seeing the images on old gravestones and petroglyphs. Basically, use a non-staining fine powder that has a color in contrast to the surface, to fill in the grooves and make them more evident.

Alternatively, light the piece from a low angle, along the blade (like the setting sun), so that the shadows from any grooves or ridges stand out.

So far as the microscope goes, you want a dissecting microscope, not a compound microscope. If you can't get anything from the physicist, you can often buy one surplus for well under a thousand dollars. Or if that's too much, there are number of simple magnifiers (for jewelers, fishing fly makers and other hobbyists) which would work too.

Best,

F

5th March 2011, 12:07 PM	#1
Rich Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: comfortably at home, USA Posts: 432	Don't know how deep the cartouches are, but with Japanese swords it's common to sprinkle with talc or baby powder, lightly brush or shake it off to enhance the signature. Might (?) work for your blades??? Also maybe a pencil or charcoal rubbing on paper might be more readable than the original on the blade. Just a thought. Rich S Last edited by Rich; 5th March 2011 at 12:18 PM.

5th March 2011, 01:29 PM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thanks Rich Hi Rich, Thanks for coming in on this. These cartouches are applied gold in the Koftgari manner and worn in places but the incised lines are still present so I am remaining hopeful that there is a method/s that highlights any residue in the grooves to offer a better outline of the writings not seen to the naked eye. I am going to the stamp shop for a black light to see if this suggested methods works too Gav

5th March 2011, 01:34 PM	#3
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Hi gav, Photoshop can do wonders. Sometimes i would see stuff after taking pics on higher megapixels, then enhancing the picture further...

5th March 2011, 02:18 PM	#5
mrwizard Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dortmund, Germany Posts: 102	It is a bit tedious but examining the surface with a simple microscope might help on the unreadable sections. I'm sure if you ask politely, someone from the university of Queensland will help you with access to the right equipment. I would start asking a mineralogy or materials science department. Best Regards, Thilo

5th March 2011, 04:23 PM	#7
fearn Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,247	Hi Gav, Talc isn't a bad idea. Check out the techniques for seeing the images on old gravestones and petroglyphs. Basically, use a non-staining fine powder that has a color in contrast to the surface, to fill in the grooves and make them more evident. Alternatively, light the piece from a low angle, along the blade (like the setting sun), so that the shadows from any grooves or ridges stand out. So far as the microscope goes, you want a dissecting microscope, not a compound microscope. If you can't get anything from the physicist, you can often buy one surplus for well under a thousand dollars. Or if that's too much, there are number of simple magnifiers (for jewelers, fishing fly makers and other hobbyists) which would work too. Best, F