Keris Batak with strange blade?

VVV · 26th January 2011, 06:48 PM

Hi Detlef and Jose,

Thanks for your input.
Actually I was more curious on opinions on the blade than on the dress.
The dress is made for the keris blade. I can force down the blade more into it
but all horn and ivory scabbards shrink a bit here in Scandinavia so I prefer not to.
As Detlef wrote silver, as well as brass and suassa, is quite usual on Batak weapons.
Here is a reference picture from Leiden of a resembling keris. The Batak culture wasn't very closed.
But usually if they wore keris it was from other cultures, like the Minang Bahari,
not locally pimped like mine or the one in Leiden. And Jose is correct, they didn't make keris themeselves.

Any more opinions on the blade?

Michael

Gustav · 26th January 2011, 09:46 PM

At first, I am not able to have and give any substantial oppinion on a blade, these are just my thoughts, when I see it.

There is a high-end cousin of this blade, which was showed in the forum some while ago, which also is Sumatran.

For me, when I see a high quality older blade, it is possible to see the differences (becouse of fine worked features, which are typical for a certain region and period of time) and also the similarities, which probably could lead back to some older (late Majapahit?) standard. With a simpler, not "capital-court" quality blade, the fine are not worked out or become somewhat blurred, like somehow, who just repeats the superficial appearing without knowing the structure. So the lover quality blades from different regions are sometimes much more similar in my eyes.

Why one finds itself remembered on Bali/Lombok blades is, becouse of the smooth surface, yet also, more typical for Lombok blades, becouse of the exagerated ricikan elements done in medium workmanship, imitating a dhapur, which would be expected to be reseved for a high-end keris.

This surely is a keris coming from periphery of keris culture, and it comes in dress of a distant Sumatran region. This would fit together.

Amuk Murugul · 26th January 2011, 09:51 PM

Hullo everybody,

To me, it's definitely not a Bangkinang. It looks more like something from eastern Java, Bali or Lombok; somewhere in that area.

Best,

Sajen · 26th January 2011, 10:33 PM

Hello Gustav,

I hope that it is ok to use your picture. I have scrolled up and down to see the similaritys between the both blades, so I want to see them near together.

Regards,

Detlef

BluErf · 26th January 2011, 11:05 PM

Interesting! How long is the blade, Michael?

Blade does look Sumatran, and it doesn't look artificially aged to me. Dress looks like Batak work to me too, though I wld say I'm also seeing a lot of newish looking Batak weapons these days with black(ened) wood sheath, silver work (including flattened "fish egg" or wire filigree work, and black rusted blades. So there could be people in the Batak region doing new work. But again, that's my doubt on the dress. The blade does not look new, unless of course the "keris factories" today have reached new heights in creating that natural aged look (hope not!!).

BluErf · 26th January 2011, 11:06 PM

Incidentally, the other blade shown here also belongs to you, Michael?

I remember it was a Sumatran keris. Minang area, if I'm not wrong.

Gustav · 27th January 2011, 01:16 AM

The thing, which I really don't understand is the joint between wrongko and gandar. This let me think of a kind of some kind of compromise or workaround: the sorts of material and the upper silver band are put together in the most peculiar possible configuration.

As I understand, the wrongko is made from horn?

26th January 2011, 06:48 PM	#1
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Hi Detlef and Jose, Thanks for your input. Actually I was more curious on opinions on the blade than on the dress. The dress is made for the keris blade. I can force down the blade more into it but all horn and ivory scabbards shrink a bit here in Scandinavia so I prefer not to. As Detlef wrote silver, as well as brass and suassa, is quite usual on Batak weapons. Here is a reference picture from Leiden of a resembling keris. The Batak culture wasn't very closed. But usually if they wore keris it was from other cultures, like the Minang Bahari, not locally pimped like mine or the one in Leiden. And Jose is correct, they didn't make keris themeselves. Any more opinions on the blade? Michael Attached Images

26th January 2011, 09:46 PM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	At first, I am not able to have and give any substantial oppinion on a blade, these are just my thoughts, when I see it. There is a high-end cousin of this blade, which was showed in the forum some while ago, which also is Sumatran. For me, when I see a high quality older blade, it is possible to see the differences (becouse of fine worked features, which are typical for a certain region and period of time) and also the similarities, which probably could lead back to some older (late Majapahit?) standard. With a simpler, not "capital-court" quality blade, the fine are not worked out or become somewhat blurred, like somehow, who just repeats the superficial appearing without knowing the structure. So the lover quality blades from different regions are sometimes much more similar in my eyes. Why one finds itself remembered on Bali/Lombok blades is, becouse of the smooth surface, yet also, more typical for Lombok blades, becouse of the exagerated ricikan elements done in medium workmanship, imitating a dhapur, which would be expected to be reseved for a high-end keris. This surely is a keris coming from periphery of keris culture, and it comes in dress of a distant Sumatran region. This would fit together. Attached Images

26th January 2011, 10:33 PM	#4
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,214	Hello Gustav, I hope that it is ok to use your picture. I have scrolled up and down to see the similaritys between the both blades, so I want to see them near together. Regards, Detlef Attached Images

26th January 2011, 09:51 PM	#3
Amuk Murugul Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Kaboejoetan Galoenggoeng Mélben Posts: 472	Hullo everybody, To me, it's definitely not a Bangkinang. It looks more like something from eastern Java, Bali or Lombok; somewhere in that area. Best,

26th January 2011, 11:05 PM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Interesting! How long is the blade, Michael? Blade does look Sumatran, and it doesn't look artificially aged to me. Dress looks like Batak work to me too, though I wld say I'm also seeing a lot of newish looking Batak weapons these days with black(ened) wood sheath, silver work (including flattened "fish egg" or wire filigree work, and black rusted blades. So there could be people in the Batak region doing new work. But again, that's my doubt on the dress. The blade does not look new, unless of course the "keris factories" today have reached new heights in creating that natural aged look (hope not!!).

26th January 2011, 11:06 PM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Incidentally, the other blade shown here also belongs to you, Michael? I remember it was a Sumatran keris. Minang area, if I'm not wrong.

27th January 2011, 01:16 AM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	The thing, which I really don't understand is the joint between wrongko and gandar. This let me think of a kind of some kind of compromise or workaround: the sorts of material and the upper silver band are put together in the most peculiar possible configuration. As I understand, the wrongko is made from horn?