Does cleaning a keris hurt overall value or patina?

David · 12th January 2011, 04:08 PM

I think Henk and i are pretty much in agreement, but i will throw down my 2 cents on the matter anyway...

It is part of the culture of the keris to regularly clean and re-stain the blades (though staining is not a common tradition on the Peninsula as i understand it). It is a way of doing honor to the blade and to maintain the spirit and ancestral energy which is supposedly held within.
Also, as Henk already pointed out, dress was routinely changed as wooded parts wore out or social status was upgraded. Of course this is all as seen from the perspective from within the culture.
Now many of us are collectors of keris from outside the culture. Still, i see nothing wrong with attempting to maintain my keris from a somewhat indigenous perspective. So if i receive a keris that is in a bad state of condition i may well choose to renovate that keris to bring it up to respectable and "original" shape. I would therefore clean the blade with pineapple juice and stain it with warangan (a mixture of lime and arsenic) to revitalize the blade. If the dress is particularly damaged i may attempt to repair it as best i can.
Sometimes you will find a keris that is already a mishmosh of various styles that has been assembled by some dealer somewhere just for the sake of sale. Under those circumstances i might choose to replace a hilt or other part to return the keris to what i perceive a a more correct cultural dress for that particular keris.
What i do not generally choose to do, however, is to upgrade the dress of my keris just for the sake of presenting a prettier ensemble. Some collector do this, but i find it counter to my own intentions of collection. I like to collect keris with a "history" and much prefer to find a keris that is as close to "original" condition as possible.
But if you are wondering whether cleaning the blade of your keris will hurt the value of that keris i would have to say no, it would not, unless of course you did some kind of irreversible damage to the blade. If you do a search on this forum for keris cleaning you should come up with some fairly clear instructions on how to safely clean your blade and prevent further rusting. Staining with warangan is a bit trickier and you might want to leave that to a professional or not stain it at all, but nobody likes a rusty keris blade so i would recommend that if there is active rust on your blade you take care of it and then oil the blade regularly.

Sajen · 12th January 2011, 08:09 PM

Hello Dave,

in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11844 I show the restoration of one keris from my collection and you will find there a discussion about restoration in general as well.

Regards,

Detlef

dave78 · 13th January 2011, 02:35 AM

It is with great care and consideration, and after reading all the

responses, that I have decided to clean the blade only and let the rest

of it grow old gracefully. I like to think of the slight dirt on the

hilt, which has a greyish appearance, not as mere dirt but as grey hair

on a well traveled, old wise man, which (in my opinion) helps gives the

piece character.

My belief is that the time and diligence put into this will serve to

honour the original maker and spirits, as well as my grandfather from

whom I inherited it, and my hope is that they would approve of my

decision.

Once again, thank you all for your thoughtful and meaningful comments,

and expertise.

Henk · 13th January 2011, 04:32 PM

Dave,

I think you should clean the dress of your keris so that the grey layer disappears. You certainly will not honour the maker and spirits by neglecting the house of the keris. If i come home i don't feel comfortable when the house is dirty with everwhere layers of dust. The spirits of the keris and the maker will think the same way.
Your grandfather? I don't know. If the dirt on the keris reminds you of your grandfather and i mean the fact that his hands touched that surface and you want to preserve that memory, fine.
But if you want to do justice to the keris, clean it!!

David · 13th January 2011, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

Dave,

I think you should clean the dress of your keris so that the grey layer disappears. You certainly will not honour the maker and spirits by neglecting the house of the keris. If i come home i don't feel comfortable when the house is dirty with everwhere layers of dust. The spirits of the keris and the maker will think the same way.
Your grandfather? I don't know. If the dirt on the keris reminds you of your grandfather and i mean the fact that his hands touched that surface and you want to preserve that memory, fine.
But if you want to do justice to the keris, clean it!!

I do have to agree here. Dirt is not patina and cleaning the dirt from the dress will not destroy the patina, only enhance it.
Personally i would use some wood oil to clean it up and keep the wood from drying out. This will help preserve the dress and prevent further cracking. I also use a bit of Butcher's Wax as a protection for the surface afterwards. Gives the wood a nice low luster look as well.

Sajen · 13th January 2011, 04:57 PM

Hello Dave,

agree with Henk and David. Do you have read the thread which I have given you by link in up? Real patina you can't clean!!

Regards,

Detlef

dave78 · 14th January 2011, 07:29 AM

Well since you all agree, and, as was pointed out, because of the cultural differences, the "rules" regarding refinishing are also different as they are here in the west. I'll use all your valuable tips and clean and preserve the whole keris. This may take awhile, but I'll post pictures when I'm done.

Thanks again for all the expert advice.

Mytribalworld · 14th January 2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Dave,

agree with Henk and David. Do you have read the thread which I have given you by link in up? Real patina you can't clean!!

Regards,

Detlef

real patina you can't clean ? AAHummm?

may I give an example ? our national museum "Bronbeek" where I once visited the depots where the curator showed me a big part of the collection that was cleaned once where very old swords has turned in completely new looking stuff without patina because of the "cleaning" activety of former curators.

It suprised me a little that members give advise to "clean" while they haven't seen the keris yet....

don't unterstand me wrong, dirt is dirt and as David mentioned oil cleaning is ok, but be very carefull with other stuff like the mentioned 0000 steelwool.

first look,than think, ( than sleep a night) than think again, that act.

untouched kerisses are getting so enourmous scarce.....

Arjan

12th January 2011, 04:08 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	I think Henk and i are pretty much in agreement, but i will throw down my 2 cents on the matter anyway... It is part of the culture of the keris to regularly clean and re-stain the blades (though staining is not a common tradition on the Peninsula as i understand it). It is a way of doing honor to the blade and to maintain the spirit and ancestral energy which is supposedly held within. Also, as Henk already pointed out, dress was routinely changed as wooded parts wore out or social status was upgraded. Of course this is all as seen from the perspective from within the culture. Now many of us are collectors of keris from outside the culture. Still, i see nothing wrong with attempting to maintain my keris from a somewhat indigenous perspective. So if i receive a keris that is in a bad state of condition i may well choose to renovate that keris to bring it up to respectable and "original" shape. I would therefore clean the blade with pineapple juice and stain it with warangan (a mixture of lime and arsenic) to revitalize the blade. If the dress is particularly damaged i may attempt to repair it as best i can. Sometimes you will find a keris that is already a mishmosh of various styles that has been assembled by some dealer somewhere just for the sake of sale. Under those circumstances i might choose to replace a hilt or other part to return the keris to what i perceive a a more correct cultural dress for that particular keris. What i do not generally choose to do, however, is to upgrade the dress of my keris just for the sake of presenting a prettier ensemble. Some collector do this, but i find it counter to my own intentions of collection. I like to collect keris with a "history" and much prefer to find a keris that is as close to "original" condition as possible. But if you are wondering whether cleaning the blade of your keris will hurt the value of that keris i would have to say no, it would not, unless of course you did some kind of irreversible damage to the blade. If you do a search on this forum for keris cleaning you should come up with some fairly clear instructions on how to safely clean your blade and prevent further rusting. Staining with warangan is a bit trickier and you might want to leave that to a professional or not stain it at all, but nobody likes a rusty keris blade so i would recommend that if there is active rust on your blade you take care of it and then oil the blade regularly.

12th January 2011, 08:09 PM	#2
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,216	Hello Dave, in this thread: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=11844 I show the restoration of one keris from my collection and you will find there a discussion about restoration in general as well. Regards, Detlef

13th January 2011, 02:35 AM	#3
dave78 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 6	It is with great care and consideration, and after reading all the responses, that I have decided to clean the blade only and let the rest of it grow old gracefully. I like to think of the slight dirt on the hilt, which has a greyish appearance, not as mere dirt but as grey hair on a well traveled, old wise man, which (in my opinion) helps gives the piece character. My belief is that the time and diligence put into this will serve to honour the original maker and spirits, as well as my grandfather from whom I inherited it, and my hope is that they would approve of my decision. Once again, thank you all for your thoughtful and meaningful comments, and expertise.

13th January 2011, 04:32 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Dave, I think you should clean the dress of your keris so that the grey layer disappears. You certainly will not honour the maker and spirits by neglecting the house of the keris. If i come home i don't feel comfortable when the house is dirty with everwhere layers of dust. The spirits of the keris and the maker will think the same way. Your grandfather? I don't know. If the dirt on the keris reminds you of your grandfather and i mean the fact that his hands touched that surface and you want to preserve that memory, fine. But if you want to do justice to the keris, clean it!!

13th January 2011, 04:57 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,216	Hello Dave, agree with Henk and David. Do you have read the thread which I have given you by link in up? Real patina you can't clean!! Regards, Detlef

14th January 2011, 07:29 AM	#7
dave78 Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 6	Well since you all agree, and, as was pointed out, because of the cultural differences, the "rules" regarding refinishing are also different as they are here in the west. I'll use all your valuable tips and clean and preserve the whole keris. This may take awhile, but I'll post pictures when I'm done. Thanks again for all the expert advice.