What is the relationship between a keris and its hilt in the ancient culture?

Neo · 2nd January 2011, 12:31 PM

Many thanks for the translation, Gustav. So that's the explanation behind bebondolan and other Bali types. This thread has provided me with very rich info. I will get Neka's newest book the next time I go there

A. G. Maisey · 3rd January 2011, 02:18 AM

Neo, the best representations of old keris dress that I know of are in the relief carvings at Panataran and Sukuh.

I think that if you search the photos of these reliefs on my site, you will probably find the pics.

The Panataran one is the carving of a keris fight and you can clearly see a scabbard of Bugis style in the waist band.

The Sukuh pic shows a ladrangan of approximately East Javanese style, again in a waist band.

However --- don't get too carried away with what you might have been told about the age of what you have. A lot of people in the keris world have very active imaginations.

Apart from what I have already said about hilts, it would be of use for anybody who wishes to understand the place of weapon hilts in SE Asian cultures, not only Jawa/Bali, to read widely on some of the less developed cultures in the region.Its all out there, but it does require a bit more than a quick google to get the answers.

Neo · 4th January 2011, 12:42 PM

Bugis style scabbard in Candi Penataran ... Hmmm, that's a surprise. Thanks for the info. I will do my research.

PenangsangII · 5th January 2011, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo

Bugis style scabbard in Candi Penataran ... Hmmm, that's a surprise. Thanks for the info. I will do my research.

its not a surprise at all.

The classic keris scabbard during kediri, Singhasari and majapahit was known to be similar to that of old Cirebon, Sumatra malay (Palembang) and Bugis scabbards today.

Historically also, during pamalayu expedition to set up buffer zone bases in anticipation of the Monggol attack to Jawa, King Kertanegara of Singhasari enlisted makasarese/Buginese who were known to be sea-faring people

Neo · 6th January 2011, 01:30 AM

Penangsang II: You just made me dig again to Karsten Jensen's book. Indeed Bugis hilts have some similarities with Cirebon's, and in one example it actually came from Cirebon. Thanks.

2nd January 2011, 12:31 PM	#1
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Many thanks for the translation, Gustav. So that's the explanation behind bebondolan and other Bali types. This thread has provided me with very rich info. I will get Neka's newest book the next time I go there

3rd January 2011, 02:18 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Neo, the best representations of old keris dress that I know of are in the relief carvings at Panataran and Sukuh. I think that if you search the photos of these reliefs on my site, you will probably find the pics. The Panataran one is the carving of a keris fight and you can clearly see a scabbard of Bugis style in the waist band. The Sukuh pic shows a ladrangan of approximately East Javanese style, again in a waist band. However --- don't get too carried away with what you might have been told about the age of what you have. A lot of people in the keris world have very active imaginations. Apart from what I have already said about hilts, it would be of use for anybody who wishes to understand the place of weapon hilts in SE Asian cultures, not only Jawa/Bali, to read widely on some of the less developed cultures in the region.Its all out there, but it does require a bit more than a quick google to get the answers.

4th January 2011, 12:42 PM	#3
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Bugis style scabbard in Candi Penataran ... Hmmm, that's a surprise. Thanks for the info. I will do my research.

6th January 2011, 01:30 AM	#5
Neo Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 59	Penangsang II: You just made me dig again to Karsten Jensen's book. Indeed Bugis hilts have some similarities with Cirebon's, and in one example it actually came from Cirebon. Thanks.