Unusual Arab Islamic African sword with inscription

A.alnakkas · 8th December 2010, 01:15 PM

hello!

the inscription says (top one first) "mulk alsultan Ali Dinar" it means: owned by the Sultan Ali Dinar. the bottom one says "ibn alsultan Zaid?" it means: son of the Sultan Zaid. but am not sure of the last word is Zaid or not.

A.Alnakkas

RSWORD · 8th December 2010, 04:21 PM

Hello Abdullatif. Could the second inscription be "ibn alSultan Zakariya". According to some online research, the father of Sultan Ali Dinar was Zakariya. Now, the question begs is whether or not this is actually a sword owned by Sultan Ali Dinar or not? Is anyone familiar enough with him to know of his familial backgrounds? I am still curious on the cross cultural influences I am seeing in this piece. I guess with the inscription this would place the piece circa 1898-1916? Jim? Stephen? I know you guys have done a lot of research in this region. Any thoughts?

A.alnakkas · 8th December 2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RSWORD

Hello Abdullatif. Could the second inscription be "ibn alSultan Zakariya". According to some online research, the father of Sultan Ali Dinar was Zakariya. Now, the question begs is whether or not this is actually a sword owned by Sultan Ali Dinar or not? Is anyone familiar enough with him to know of his familial backgrounds? I am still curious on the cross cultural influences I am seeing in this piece. I guess with the inscription this would place the piece circa 1898-1916? Jim? Stephen? I know you guys have done a lot of research in this region. Any thoughts?

thats correct! it is Zakariya, explains alot

Iain · 8th December 2010, 05:14 PM

Ali Dinar was a grandson of the last Keyra Fur sultan. The dynasty that ruled Dar Fur for quite a while (centuries as I recall). Can't find much else quickly online and most of my references are for further west in Sahel.

I think this sword is certainly of a level where it could have been owned by the sultan. The silver work is not out of line for Dar Fur being also seen on some of the more elaborate kaskara. I did turn up an old auction catalog reference for a kaskara owned by Dinar. P. Missillier and H. Ricketts 1988, no. 257 if that helps.

I still feel this piece is very reliant on Tebu form but the pommel has me stumped.

RSWORD · 9th December 2010, 01:42 PM

Hi Iain,

I agree there are a lot of Tebu similarities in both the scabbard and the handle. The Tebu were present in the Sudan and I was reading in one of my reference books that Sultan Ali Dinar had a large personal collection of swords and other arms. He seemed quite fond of that so to have a variety of styles, especially maybe out of respect of some of the ethnic groups that were in his area, may have been important to him. I agree that there are some good possibilities this is one of his swords. The inscription is in line with many I can find referenced. I also found a kaskara referenced that had those extra hanging pieces. I have not seen this in any other sword before so the fact another kaskara with similar inscription and similar extra hanging pieces is the type of circumstantial evidence that I am comfortable saying my sword was probably owned by Sultan Ali Dinar but unless I can run across a photograph that shows him with this sword it would be difficult to say it definitely was owned by him. Anyone have a large photo archive of Sultan Ali Dinar?

Iain · 9th December 2010, 01:51 PM

Hi, which hanging pieces are you referring to? The leather strings on the scabbard?

I'm still looking around for more info on this. Usually there is more than one of something or at least something in a similar style but this is, well just, odd and rare.

RSWORD · 10th December 2010, 01:31 PM

Yes, those leather strings with the ball finials that are attached to the shoulder harness are what I am referring to. I agree it is an unusual and rare example as I also have not run across a similar example. I am surprised nobody has joined our discussion as usually mysterious or unusual pieces spark some theories. Please, does anyone have any comments on this one?

8th December 2010, 01:15 PM	#1
A.alnakkas Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Kuwait Posts: 1,340	hello! the inscription says (top one first) "mulk alsultan Ali Dinar" it means: owned by the Sultan Ali Dinar. the bottom one says "ibn alsultan Zaid?" it means: son of the Sultan Zaid. but am not sure of the last word is Zaid or not. A.Alnakkas

8th December 2010, 04:21 PM	#2
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Hello Abdullatif. Could the second inscription be "ibn alSultan Zakariya". According to some online research, the father of Sultan Ali Dinar was Zakariya. Now, the question begs is whether or not this is actually a sword owned by Sultan Ali Dinar or not? Is anyone familiar enough with him to know of his familial backgrounds? I am still curious on the cross cultural influences I am seeing in this piece. I guess with the inscription this would place the piece circa 1898-1916? Jim? Stephen? I know you guys have done a lot of research in this region. Any thoughts?

8th December 2010, 05:14 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Ali Dinar was a grandson of the last Keyra Fur sultan. The dynasty that ruled Dar Fur for quite a while (centuries as I recall). Can't find much else quickly online and most of my references are for further west in Sahel. I think this sword is certainly of a level where it could have been owned by the sultan. The silver work is not out of line for Dar Fur being also seen on some of the more elaborate kaskara. I did turn up an old auction catalog reference for a kaskara owned by Dinar. P. Missillier and H. Ricketts 1988, no. 257 if that helps. I still feel this piece is very reliant on Tebu form but the pommel has me stumped.

9th December 2010, 01:42 PM	#5
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Hi Iain, I agree there are a lot of Tebu similarities in both the scabbard and the handle. The Tebu were present in the Sudan and I was reading in one of my reference books that Sultan Ali Dinar had a large personal collection of swords and other arms. He seemed quite fond of that so to have a variety of styles, especially maybe out of respect of some of the ethnic groups that were in his area, may have been important to him. I agree that there are some good possibilities this is one of his swords. The inscription is in line with many I can find referenced. I also found a kaskara referenced that had those extra hanging pieces. I have not seen this in any other sword before so the fact another kaskara with similar inscription and similar extra hanging pieces is the type of circumstantial evidence that I am comfortable saying my sword was probably owned by Sultan Ali Dinar but unless I can run across a photograph that shows him with this sword it would be difficult to say it definitely was owned by him. Anyone have a large photo archive of Sultan Ali Dinar?

9th December 2010, 01:51 PM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,719	Hi, which hanging pieces are you referring to? The leather strings on the scabbard? I'm still looking around for more info on this. Usually there is more than one of something or at least something in a similar style but this is, well just, odd and rare.

10th December 2010, 01:31 PM	#7
RSWORD Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,093	Yes, those leather strings with the ball finials that are attached to the shoulder harness are what I am referring to. I agree it is an unusual and rare example as I also have not run across a similar example. I am surprised nobody has joined our discussion as usually mysterious or unusual pieces spark some theories. Please, does anyone have any comments on this one?