Encounters of the Third Kind

A. G. Maisey · 3rd December 2010, 07:53 PM

Thank you gentlemen.

I'm virtually certain that it is not a pelecok handle:- too big, the hole fits a keris tang well, is too big for a pelecok, it came off a keris that came into Oz a long time ago. Regrettably I do not remember what sort of keris it came off, it was one I bought maybe +50 years ago that needed a lot of work on it, and at that time I was not interested in the same things with keris as I am now.

So --- where have we seen that triangular floral motif before?

Any more suggestions?

David · 3rd December 2010, 09:52 PM

I see variartions on this triangular floral pattern often in Bali hilts and i believe as well in some hits from Madura.

David · 3rd December 2010, 09:55 PM

Here is a hilt that i am fairly convinced is from Madura.

David · 3rd December 2010, 09:56 PM

Of course i think one could also link the pattern on these Javanese hilts to the first example, so it seems to be a pattern shared by the 3 islands at least.

David · 3rd December 2010, 10:09 PM

Here's another Bali example, this time, unfortunately, not in my collection...

Rick · 3rd December 2010, 11:15 PM

Doesn't that motif represent the Tumpal Throne ?

Male Female interface ?

Alan's piece shows only the Male component, right ?

Gustav · 3rd December 2010, 11:29 PM

The oldest examples (keris hilts), where this can be seen, are most probably the golden figural hilts on so called Gowa/Makassar keris. One of them you can see in (and on) van Zonnevelds book.

This is most probably a stylized lotos flower. Later developments are then the Tumpal motivs (stylised lotus is the filling of a single Tumpal) in a row, also with reversed Tumpal. Most of the times you can recognize the three petals and a round centre, which later can be sometimes understood as Bintulu.

This motif you can find from Sumatra till Sulawesi and Lombok, and it is in its origins hinduistic, the seet of a deity (on the base of a keris hilt). So it could be very well a relic from Majapahit times.

BluErf · 4th December 2010, 01:29 AM

Not just Sumatra, but also in N. Peninsula (see silver coteng pic at the bottom), but the thing is that the form of the motif is not the same. In Sumatra/N Peninsula, the motif is fatter/rounder. Anyway, the hilt Alan posted has a style that does not seem to be from the Sumatra/Malay side of the Archipelago, but more of the rounder, more naturalistic forms I thought is usually found on the western side of the archipelago. Ok, this is my guess, but let's see how far off I am.

3rd December 2010, 09:52 PM	#2
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	I see variartions on this triangular floral pattern often in Bali hilts and i believe as well in some hits from Madura. Attached Images

3rd December 2010, 09:55 PM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Here is a hilt that i am fairly convinced is from Madura. Attached Images

3rd December 2010, 09:56 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Of course i think one could also link the pattern on these Javanese hilts to the first example, so it seems to be a pattern shared by the 3 islands at least. Attached Images

3rd December 2010, 10:09 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,220	Here's another Bali example, this time, unfortunately, not in my collection... Attached Images

4th December 2010, 01:29 AM	#8
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Not just Sumatra, but also in N. Peninsula (see silver coteng pic at the bottom), but the thing is that the form of the motif is not the same. In Sumatra/N Peninsula, the motif is fatter/rounder. Anyway, the hilt Alan posted has a style that does not seem to be from the Sumatra/Malay side of the Archipelago, but more of the rounder, more naturalistic forms I thought is usually found on the western side of the archipelago. Ok, this is my guess, but let's see how far off I am. Attached Images

3rd December 2010, 07:53 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,019	Thank you gentlemen. I'm virtually certain that it is not a pelecok handle:- too big, the hole fits a keris tang well, is too big for a pelecok, it came off a keris that came into Oz a long time ago. Regrettably I do not remember what sort of keris it came off, it was one I bought maybe +50 years ago that needed a lot of work on it, and at that time I was not interested in the same things with keris as I am now. So --- where have we seen that triangular floral motif before? Any more suggestions?

3rd December 2010, 11:15 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	Doesn't that motif represent the Tumpal Throne ? Male Female interface ? Alan's piece shows only the Male component, right ?

3rd December 2010, 11:29 PM	#7
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	The oldest examples (keris hilts), where this can be seen, are most probably the golden figural hilts on so called Gowa/Makassar keris. One of them you can see in (and on) van Zonnevelds book. This is most probably a stylized lotos flower. Later developments are then the Tumpal motivs (stylised lotus is the filling of a single Tumpal) in a row, also with reversed Tumpal. Most of the times you can recognize the three petals and a round centre, which later can be sometimes understood as Bintulu. This motif you can find from Sumatra till Sulawesi and Lombok, and it is in its origins hinduistic, the seet of a deity (on the base of a keris hilt). So it could be very well a relic from Majapahit times.