Kris/Sundang just finished on ebay.

[David]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

Firstly, I don't believe the piece to be a Sundang as such. It looks more like a kris from somewhere like Mindanaw.
Secondly, I don't think that it's a "Ganjo iras", as I seem to detect a distinct separation between the blade and the base section.

Actually, i have read that in Maranao the "correct" name for a kris with a straight blade is Sundang Espada. If this is correct then it would indeed be far to refer to this Maranao straight kris as a Sundang (as such).
We as Western collectors tend to generalize (or perhaps simplify) our terminology with these weapons, but it is important to remember that each of the Moro tribes have there own unique ways of referring to their weapons and parts of them.
Kai, i'm not really sure what you see that makes you lean towards doubting a separate gangya. I don't think we see enough info in this one image to be clear in either direction.
The hilt may indeed not be original to the blade, but it certainly wasn't originally attached this way. This is an old field repair and what it tells me is that this kris was a "user" and that someone did what they could in order to make it functional quickly.
I'm also not sure what you are implying Kai when you say that this "greneng" is not "traditional". It certainly is unusal, but i have seen other variations on this theme. What "tradition" do you think it comes from?
Does anyone have a link to the original auction? Were there more photos?

[Sajen]

Here the link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-sword-wooden...item2eb11dbbb7
Only two pictures more were shown by the auction.

[Rick]

Having seen the piece in its entirety all I can say is !wow! what a beautifully made and proportioned blade !!

The form is close to perfection, IMO .

Now the problem would be whether to leave the old soldier as he is or go full restore ?

I think I would just try to stabilise it were it mine .

The piece speaks for itself just as it is .

[David]

Sorry i missed that one, i may have had a run at it.
Always nice to see the whole piece for over all perspective.
If it were mine i'd have trouble removing the rattan on it since it's such a nice example of a jungle repair and you wouldn't want to lose that history. It would be tough to fully clean the blade with it attached though.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by David

Sorry i missed that one, i may have had a run at it.
Always nice to see the whole piece for over all perspective.
If it were mine i'd have trouble removing the rattan on it since it's such a nice example of a jungle repair and you wouldn't want to lose that history. It would be tough to fully clean the blade with it attached though.

That would be the challenge, David .

The best one could hope for is stabilization, IMO .
Still ...
A bargain for a Moro Collector .

I guess the recession has hit everywhere .

[Battara]

Originally Posted by David

Actually, i have read that in Maranao the "correct" name for a kris with a straight blade is Sundang Espada.

The only problem with this term is that the last word "espada" is Spanish, not Maranao. I have never heard this term before, though sundang would not surprise me.

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by Battara

The only problem with this term is that the last word "espada" is Spanish, not Maranao. I have never heard this term before, though sundang would not surprise me.

Am looking at the Maranao-English dictionary that Nonoy Tan lent me.

Can't find the specific term for a straight-blade kris, however. But on a related matter, here are the Maranao terms for 'sword':

Sword: diaoaq, inalongan panampao, karis [i.e., kalis or kris], koiang, ledao, maindan, minar, miros, panangan, pedang, pinotiq, sarab

Sword or fighting knife of Sulu: kalis

Sword or kris with wavy blade: lingiq

Sword used for fighting, has straight edge: kampilan

Sword--card game: ispada

Sword--either wavy or straight blade: sondang

Sword--samurai: pedang a apon [i.e., pedang of the 'Hapon', or Japanese]

Sword--two-bladed and curved along entire length: sikoq

Sword--wooden: kaboran

[David]

Originally Posted by Battara

The only problem with this term is that the last word "espada" is Spanish, not Maranao. I have never heard this term before, though sundang would not surprise me.

That may well be so José. I first encountered these tribal language differences on Federico's Moro site... http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...o/diagram.html ... and recently found this on the web. I cannot attest to it's accuracy though

[migueldiaz]

Originally Posted by David

That may well be so José. I first encountered these tribal language differences on Federico's Moro site... http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom...o/diagram.html ... and recently found this on the web. I cannot attest to it's accuracy though

David, thanks for posting the pic. I was actually the one who made that illustration. The references I used were Cato's Moro Swords, and the Summer Institute of Linguistics' (SIL) Tausug-English Dictionary.

One of these days, I'll go down to Maranaw territory and look for a professor who can validate these terminologies. In the meantime, I suppose Cato and SIL are reliable sources. Thus we can rest assured that the terms are ok.