Basket hilted backsword

Ron Anderson · 9th October 2010, 12:15 AM

Hi Jim

Thanks for that info.

Here are more pictures, including blade. My feeling is this is not a 1796 pattern blade. The fuller is different and doesn't extend all the way to the spear tip the way I've seen in those 1796 pattern swords. I've just checked my Robson reference book to confirm.

Personally, I've never been impressed with the 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword. For its size, it seemed lightweight and weak and clumsy. As I used to own a Heavy Cavalry French Pallasch circa 1811, I was surprsied when I first picked up the English equivalent, and disappointed.

The blade on this sword seems of a much better quality to me. This is a nice blade indeed.

Jim McDougall · 9th October 2010, 02:16 AM

Thanks for the updated photos Ron, and seeing the blade detail, it is of course obvious this has nothing to do with the M1796 blade. With the elliptical fuller terminus it seems more like a Continental type blade, so likely a Solingen product.

I know what you mean on the M1796 heavy cavalry swords, and quite honestly they received similar reviews to what you have noted when they were first introduced. These did however exact horrifying results on the French forces at Waterloo with the immortal charge of the Royal Scots Greys. Despite these accounts, for the most part these were regarded exactly as you note, as being clumsy and ineffective, quite contrary to the ambitious hopes of LeMarchant when he sought to create these official patterns for light and heavy cavalry.

The French pallasch as you have also noted, was a superb weapon indeed.

All the best,
Jim

Norman McCormick · 11th October 2010, 08:23 PM

Hi Ron,
Can you post the stats of the blade, length etc? Is the blade absolutely straight or is there a slight curve?
Regards,
Norman.

Ron Anderson · 11th October 2010, 11:10 PM

Hi Norman

I'll do the measurements when I get home tonight.

I think the blade is completely straight.

Ron Anderson · 12th October 2010, 10:23 AM

Hi Norman

Thanks for your interest.

The blade is between 97 and 98 cms. With the hilt the sword is about 114cms long.

The hilt is 15.5 cms wide from the extremities of the basket.

It is completely straight.

Regards
Ron

Cathey · 13th October 2010, 04:18 AM

Hi Ron

Wonderful to hear from a fellow Australian collector. This is an interesting sword and whilst I have a number of basket hilts in my collection I have never come across a pommel like this one. You might consider sending some pictures to the Baron of Earlshall who is in the process of finalising a book on Basket hilts that will become the definitive reference. His website is: www.thescottishbaskethiltedsword.co.uk/. If anyone can settle the question of English or Scottish I am certain the Baron can. Personally I would put money on it being English.

In your profile, you mention that you collect edged weapons is there a specific area of sword collecting that you specialise in?

Cheers Cathey.

Jim McDougall · 13th October 2010, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathey

Hi Ron

Wonderful to hear from a fellow Australian collector. This is an interesting sword and whilst I have a number of basket hilts in my collection I have never come across a pommel like this one. You might consider sending some pictures to the Baron of Earlshall who is in the process of finalising a book on Basket hilts that will become the definitive reference. His website is: www.thescottishbaskethiltedsword.co.uk/. If anyone can settle the question of English or Scottish I am certain the Baron can. Personally I would put money on it being English.

In your profile, you mention that you collect edged weapons is there a specific area of sword collecting that you specialise in?

Cheers Cathey.

Hi Cathey,
I just wanted to say its good to have you posting again! Its been a while it seems so just saying hello. Also its good to hear your assessment in this being English, as I have been convinced of that as well. I have always heard the guideline that there are no Highland Scottish swords post Culloden (1746) which seems reasonable technically as weapons were of course proscribed in the Highlands.
Naturally the industrious and clever Scots certainly must have made swords covertly much as they secreted away thier treasured basket hilts, but to identify these would be the height of identificative skill.
With the formation of the Scottish regiments for the Crown and the armoury at Edinburgh, there must have been swords of course to those with associations to these cases.

I think the most heartbreaking reference is that of "Swords From the Battlefield at Culloden", where the proud blades taken from fallen Highlanders in this travesty were taken from the hilts and made into an iron fence. Here you could see the familiar Andrea Ferara, running wolf and other markings on these painted over blades.

Again, wonderful to hear from you Cathey!

All the best,
Jim

9th October 2010, 12:15 AM	#1
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Jim Thanks for that info. Here are more pictures, including blade. My feeling is this is not a 1796 pattern blade. The fuller is different and doesn't extend all the way to the spear tip the way I've seen in those 1796 pattern swords. I've just checked my Robson reference book to confirm. Personally, I've never been impressed with the 1796 Heavy Cavalry Sword. For its size, it seemed lightweight and weak and clumsy. As I used to own a Heavy Cavalry French Pallasch circa 1811, I was surprsied when I first picked up the English equivalent, and disappointed. The blade on this sword seems of a much better quality to me. This is a nice blade indeed. Attached Images

13th October 2010, 04:18 AM	#6
Cathey Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: adelaide south australia Posts: 284	Fellow Ossie collector Hi Ron Wonderful to hear from a fellow Australian collector. This is an interesting sword and whilst I have a number of basket hilts in my collection I have never come across a pommel like this one. You might consider sending some pictures to the Baron of Earlshall who is in the process of finalising a book on Basket hilts that will become the definitive reference. His website is: www.thescottishbaskethiltedsword.co.uk/. If anyone can settle the question of English or Scottish I am certain the Baron can. Personally I would put money on it being English. In your profile, you mention that you collect edged weapons is there a specific area of sword collecting that you specialise in? Cheers Cathey.

9th October 2010, 02:16 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	Thanks for the updated photos Ron, and seeing the blade detail, it is of course obvious this has nothing to do with the M1796 blade. With the elliptical fuller terminus it seems more like a Continental type blade, so likely a Solingen product. I know what you mean on the M1796 heavy cavalry swords, and quite honestly they received similar reviews to what you have noted when they were first introduced. These did however exact horrifying results on the French forces at Waterloo with the immortal charge of the Royal Scots Greys. Despite these accounts, for the most part these were regarded exactly as you note, as being clumsy and ineffective, quite contrary to the ambitious hopes of LeMarchant when he sought to create these official patterns for light and heavy cavalry. The French pallasch as you have also noted, was a superb weapon indeed. All the best, Jim

11th October 2010, 08:23 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,632	Hi Ron, Can you post the stats of the blade, length etc? Is the blade absolutely straight or is there a slight curve? Regards, Norman.

11th October 2010, 11:10 PM	#4
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Norman I'll do the measurements when I get home tonight. I think the blade is completely straight.

12th October 2010, 10:23 AM	#5
Ron Anderson Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 228	Hi Norman Thanks for your interest. The blade is between 97 and 98 cms. With the hilt the sword is about 114cms long. The hilt is 15.5 cms wide from the extremities of the basket. It is completely straight. Regards Ron